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Author Topic:   I almost forgot but I finally brought it home and pulled it apart!!
goinrcn44h
Member
posted November 26, 2004 01:11 PM
I did finally bring the rig and trailer home like 3 weeks ago. Got it all unloaded and washed , etc..
Pullin the engine out the first thing I noticed as a big problem was at the crank flange, and the fact it had broke one of the circlip grooves out of the flange and flung a u-joint cap out, which allowed the joint to try to fly out but wedge partially in partially out. Obvious cause of MAJOR vibration I felt. So I finish draining and cleaning up and roll it over and pull the pan, the first thing I see is #5 rod bearing is gone, literally, #6 is just starting to go. Then I notice that the main cap right there is broke, then the next is also and then all 3 are cracked . the 3 middle caps all cracked across in the same location on all 3. None of the caps have any color at all in them, nor do any other rods. So all this leads me to believe that the u-joint broke, flew to the side, which took everything way outa balance, bent the crank which then took the rods out and broke the caps... Atleast thats what I can come up with that seems most likely....??
The crank actually looks good except at #5 which its easy enough to regrind, etc. I may still go with that longer stroke light weight one of my buddies. which leads me to 2 questions.
1) what , if any, would it hurt to use rods that look the same, weigh the same both overall and end weight, same H style etc, but made by different companies? if they weigh , look , measure, the same does it matter that two different people made them?
2) and I know best case scenario one wants the piston flush with the deck, but without changin blocks, or something else major, I cant do it. but as it stands , the piston will be at the most, sticking out approx. .009".... which is almost nothing. but it might actually be a way to make my life easier. I was going to increase my compression anyway, and with a standard 1003 gasket I was at .042 squish, before, - .009 and that leaves .033 plus increases my compression from 13.7 to 14.3 or there abouts. in which I was going to go to 14.5 to 14.7 to 1 so if I clean up the surface on the heads a couple thous. then it will put me right there.
I've asked a few guys and have been told the piston being out a little bit isn't gonna hurt anything and I dont see how it really could only being .009 out, but just askin in case.
thx, Michael Harris 44H


rico 08
Member
posted November 26, 2004 03:17 PM
I don't think i've ever seen a driveshaft out of balance hurt a motor,especially if the tranny is good..i'd look at the crank a little closer..i bet it's broken.


sdhnc29
Member
posted November 26, 2004 03:39 PM
Your main caps broke first, shut the oil off to #5, causing the rod bearing's to spin. I'll bet your block is also broken in the main web's, and your crank will be broken for sure as well. Your u-joint is a separate incident entirely.

To answer your first question, if a different brand rod weighs the same, then the engine is not prejudice as to brand.

Your second question is based on your block being good, which I'm 99.999999% sure it will not be.

Steve

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Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


goinrcn44h
Member
posted November 26, 2004 07:47 PM
In most cases I would agree but the exception would be if its in a sprint car. where the crank flange u-joint and splined yoke are all right there and then also the driveline. And I have no doubt that it had the ability to break stuff, I have broken rods and it felt about 10% of what this did. When the cap came off, it flung the u-joint and yoke and driveline way outa center, enough to eat the entire end off the ball and housing.
I still haven't pulled it out and apart and I have access to another fresh block that is 030 over also, and so its not a huge deal I guess. I'll have the block checked for any cracks and all that.
So if the caps did break first , why did they break? and there really isn't any way these two instances can be separate really. I mean they are bolted together and when the crank is spinning 8000 a u-joint cap isnt gonna stay in place long. It happened all at once , no warning at all, and felt good right up to that point. then wow, unholy shaking!
I did change the oil and filter earlier that day, and as per normal there wasnt a thing in it looked good. as a side note.....

Thanx guys,
M.Harris 44H 360 dirt sprint


sdhnc29
Member
posted November 26, 2004 09:36 PM
What kind of main caps are on the block?

Steve

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Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


JT54
Member
posted November 27, 2004 12:23 AM
JT54,

I'm sure your main cap broke first. It's a very common scenario with stock block's, with stock main caps.

Steve

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Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


2nd2none
Member
posted November 27, 2004 11:33 AM
goinrcn44h........Some helpfull advice, change them whole u-joint assy out every couple of years!! You got lucky having yours break and keeping inside the torque ball housing. We had a car this year break his u-joint and it sent the drive shaft up through the torque ball, hitting the fuel pump and spraying methenol everywhere and catching fire. It was one of the worst fire's I've ever seen, landing the guy in the hospital for a couple months with 3rd degree burns on his lower legs and hands.


goinrcn44h
Member
posted November 27, 2004 04:33 PM
Actually,
The crank side 1/2 of the assembly was new at the start of the year, as was the u-joint itself, the yoke 1/2 I run steel as I've had one come apart last year. so age and/or wear wasn't really an issue I don't believe.
These were stock caps steve, from an assembly from schwanke mid last year. I had done main bearings over the winter and up till this nothing really had done anything negative. I did bust a couple rocker studs but I also believe I sorted that out as well .
Overall I guess it doesnt matter what did what first, it all has to be rebuilt, but I still wanna know just for knowledge sake.
thanx,
m.harris


Istock66
unregistered
posted November 27, 2004 05:21 PM           
8000 rpm with stock caps!!!


stockcar5
Member
posted November 27, 2004 06:38 PM
im sure you dont wanna hear this now but, i'd stay away from schwanke. alot of people around here have had trouble with his stuff (including myself).

i hope they were at LEAST the nodular caps!!

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www.geocities.com/dirtstockcar5


goinrcn44h
Member
posted November 28, 2004 01:04 AM
Yes,
8000, 8100, I even hit 8400 once or twice with this very engine with stock 4 bolt caps. I could get the numbers off them if ya like its out in the garage. when things are right the caps hold up fine I believe. in which is why I have over 20 shows total on this one.. yes it broke, but if it moves , it will break eventually.
I've had nothin but good luck with Tim, as have my good buddy in meridian, he has alot more of tims stuff than I do and its always clean and good stuff done right
44H


sdhnc29
Member
posted November 28, 2004 10:58 AM
Oh ok goinrcn44h. The stock main caps should really not be used in your application. Especially if they are the 3412 4-bolt caps. You might get away with the 2482 nodular caps a little longer, but they too will eventually break. If you have to use a stock block I'd suggest starting with a 2-bolt block and have good 4-bolt caps installed on the center 3. I'd also suggest have the rear main cap changed to a steel cap as well, if it's in your budget. Of course after all of this is done, if your producing good power and hooking the car up, the main web's will break. If your rules allow it, I'd use a Bow Tie or a Little-M. There are many companies now who can run CNC programs on the Little-M or the Bow Tie, and get them lighter than a stock block.

Once you get up into the 14's on compression ratio, your choice of block's, main cap's, etc, is going to become critical.

Steve

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Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


rico 08
Member
posted November 28, 2004 03:23 PM
I didn't realize it was a sprint car motor...disregard my first post.....