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Author Topic:   Engine build
RubbinIsRacing
Member
posted April 07, 2004 07:10 PM
No, a claimer is not an illegal motor...just one that you would be willing to part with for $525.

Chomme was right in the ballpark with his reply. Now to advance past the "claimer" stuff... you add up the additional cost of a 4340 forged crank, 4340 forged H beam rods, forged pistons, good rings and bearings(thats about $1,000+ extra right there) decent machine work (balanced, degreed and assembled) plus add in a $200 oil pan and pick-up with a $500 Ignition system(distributor, box, wires, plugs, etc.)
$200+ roller rocker arms, ARP bolts and studs everyplace. Good timing chain & cover. Around $600 for a good alky carb.
Another $125 plus for an intake. Stewart water pump ($175) plus the pulleys and belts. Not to forget the stud girdles and valve covers...plus studs!!!
Course,we got to have the $100 mini starter and $40 flexplate
$250 Dyna-tech headers plus a $400 belt-drive fuel pump and it can all add up pretty quick !!!!

Its the "small" things that really add up on these cars. It can nickel and dime you to death. Them dadburn AN hose end fittings can just make you go broke or crazy. lol Because its that kind of stuff that your local parts store usually won't have and you have to do the mail-order deal and hope that you measured it just right, Its just getting that first one together that is a pain. The rest really aren't all THAT bad.
Good luck.


nice_guy_wi
Member
posted April 07, 2004 09:59 PM
It really depends on where you run and what you can afford. The two local tracks we run no longer have claim rules (somehow anyone who claimed, managed to find the fence weekly till they stopped showing up). And the top running mods are running well over $10K engines. A last thought......please tell me you work in a machine shop or are a mechanic if you planned on assembling a $10K engine yourself.


RubbinIsRacing
Member
posted April 08, 2004 06:58 AM
Personally i think 2500-3000 is minimum I would feel safe spending to be competitive yet not worry about breaking something out of the gate. Any more and you arent really buying HP as much as durability and longevity. You will buy some HP but really you can go overboard quick and overpower and outspend yourself especially just starting out. At our track I would say the average cost would be 2500-5500$ anymore than that is prob overkill. You could spend 10K but its so dry you really arent helping yourself any.


UFnARacing
Member
posted April 08, 2004 08:40 AM
Just having built a new 383 this year, I can attest to what dirtbuster said. I paid a total of about $4000 for the short block, but a lot of that went into good parts that don't increase horsepower. Some did, some didn't, but you seem to pay the "extra" dollars to make your motor last.

We'll see.......

------------------
http://webpages.charter.net/ufnaracing/


RubbinIsRacing
Member
posted April 08, 2004 08:46 AM
Basically the rules (IMCA) state that the top 4 cars may be claimed by any car 5th on back as long as they are on the lead lap. Also the 2nd-4th place cars may claim ahead if they wish as well. Has nothing to do with being illegal or not.

As for motors, If you are just getting started dont feel like you have to have a high dollar motor and dont think that jsut because you do you will be competitive. Chassis setup is most important. If you have 600HP and cant get the car to handle you will get outrun by a well handling car with 450HP anyday.


RubbinIsRacing
Member
posted April 08, 2004 01:51 PM
www.cnc-motorsports.com is another good place for parts. Surf Ebay and sometimes they have good deals on factory blems. I know some people swear at Eagle stuff (rods and cranks) but they've served me well so far. Avoid CatPep stuff like the plague. Eagle might be import stuff, but Cat is pretty much import junk. Cat stuff almost HAS to be remachined to be used. Not worth it. All the cranks on Ebay with a **** part number are from the same Chinese company ( http://mayindustry.com/index.htm ).

Eagle 4340 crank $500
SIR rods $200
Probe FPS pistons $375
Rings, bearings, oil pump, timing chain, cam, lifters $400
Gaskets, oil pan, pickup tube, valve covers, timing cover, balancer, flexplate/flywheel $600
That's what? ** thinking ** $2075.
Figure on $1000 easy for heads (Dart Iron Eagle 200's or World Sportsman II's)
Pushrods, rockers, rocker studs $400
Intake, carb, distributor $650

That's around $4125 in parts. If you trust the heads to be right from the factory (which there's usually alot of room for improvement) you could run them as is. But you'll have abour $1000 in block work (clean, mag, cam bearing stall, bore, deck, balance etc).

So I'd say around $5000 is the minimum if you're starting from scratch. If you want to do it once, get a 350 2 bolt block, have it checked and bored .020" (save as many overbores as possible) and have splayed caps installed. Use a 3.75" stroke crank and 5.7" rods. That'll be the most durable, cheapest, best bang for the buck, easiest to assemble combo you'll come up with.


Flatlander
Member
posted April 08, 2004 10:15 PM
honest opinion...
get a 350 block go 30 over
get a set of hyperutectic pistons-229
rebuilt stock rods-99
scat crank-169.99
rings bearings/gaskets-150(moly rings)
camshaft with lifters 129
timing chain-14.99
oil pan kit-89.99 (ask if they'll throw in the pickup)
find a pair of double hump heads and have someone go over them and port them, new valves/springs/retainers run you around 200 after its all said and done
intake-189
valve covers-20 bux
this will give you a good respectable motor your learning... just starting out dont go overboard keep the rpms low this will last quite a wh ile, while your racing save up build a good shortblock to slap these heads on and you're set...


dirtbuster
Member
posted April 09, 2004 10:46 AM
I wouldnt mess with double humps or any stock head for that matter. Get a good set of heads that you can move to a better shortblock later if you want. By the time you find a decent set of double hump cores and have them reworked and ported you have almost as much or more in them as a pair of dart or world heads and they still arent as good. Plus if you ever want to upgrade your engine program the better heads will make a difference. Look around and you can find a set of 200cc sportsman 2 heads for around 750-800 usually.


dirtbuster
Member
posted April 09, 2004 11:15 AM
Here is what I come up with. Now it can be done cheaper w/ stock crank, rods, used parts etc and you can for sure spend more or mix and match from the low and high side and end up in the middle. For the most part the 2 motors will make roughly the same power but the higher end will last longer just on quality of parts. Likewise with machine work start adding splayed caps, truing lifter bores, etc its starts to add up fast and your not really gaining any HP but you are decreasing strain on parts.

hyper through forged pistons... 150-500
aftermarket rods... 200-500
aftermarket cast steel through forged crank... 200-900
out of box sportsman/daart heads.. 800-1000
bearings rings gaskets ...200-250
oil pump...25-50
oil pan....75-200
cam/lifters....100-250
intake..... 150-250
roller rocker arms... 150-250
pushrods....50-100
valve covers....25
balancer... 100-200
timing chain.... 35-75
bolts/misc...50-100
block core ....100
bore/hone...100
hot tank...50
balance assembly..150
line bore...250
misc machine work 100$
low..3060 high..5400

[This message has been edited by dirtbuster (edited April 09, 2004).]

BrianW
Member
posted April 09, 2004 03:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by chomme:
I know of one guy that runs really well that is running a true claimer motor, a 400 2 bolt with KB pistons, 5.7" polished rods, and a stock crank...stock balancer, double hump heads, decent intake, crane solid, long slot rockers, and a 750 alky carb. He ran fast lap last week and beat everyone by over 6/10 of a second for lap times. And he wasn't twisting it more than 6200rpm, either. So a claimer can do decent if the car is setup right.

That's great to hear - I was thinking the same exact setup, except using a scat 6" rod, Flat-top speed-pro hyper pistons, and some 49cc Dart or 50cc ProTopline heads and not spin it over 6300 or so. I turn my current ultra-budget dome-top 355 at 6200 and it's lasted 3.5 seasons without a refresh and am going to tear it down before running it this year.



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