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Author Topic:   problems with a sponsor?
dode
Member
posted July 07, 2003 04:24 PM
We have gotten a sponsorship with a local engine shop, which is all great and wonderful since we just blew up a motor. The agreement is we pay for parts and they will do all the machine work, labor, etc. Well, the first problem that has risen is that they refuse to tell me the specs on the cam that they are using, saying I don't need to know. Anyone have any advice on how to handle such a situation. I mean they are delivering a motor that is broken in and ready to drop in a car, but I am going to have to be the one to sort out any problems at the track, so I do feel I need to know. Anyone ever have an experience like this?

Thanks.

John

autoshop
Member
posted July 07, 2003 04:38 PM
Here is my take. The guy feels he might have a good cam package for your rules and doesn't want to get out. I can understand that. If he tells you to turn**** rpm then that is really all you need to know if the motor is working good. But you can always degree the cam and find out what it is.
Degreeing the cam is a way for you toi find out what the cam is and not have issues with your motor guy. That is what I would do.


dode
Member
posted July 07, 2003 06:27 PM
I hadn't thought of degreeing it...hmmmm...I might have to give that a shot. My issue is that the very little I have been told about the cam is that it is like .553/.567 lift, and this is for a factory stock with stock heads, 9:1 compression, stock cast iron intake and exhaust that with our last motor turned about 5800 rpms. That sounds like way too much cam for our car, but I just wanted some more info. I also wanted the info to try and setup the carburator. I dunno...I am just confused and frustrated.

John

towmandan
Member
posted July 07, 2003 06:37 PM
Alot of what you need to know is the duration at 050 and lobe center but it sounds like alot of camshaft to me typically if it is a common grind at that lift its probaly around 260 to 270 at 050 and would need 11to1 comp. or better and twist it up to about 7000 to 7500 and how much your car ways affects the way it will pull also....alot of this is guess work but should be in the ball park......Towman


dode
Member
posted July 07, 2003 06:52 PM
This is in a 3400 lb factory stock.

John

wizzard
Member
posted July 07, 2003 07:53 PM
If it is competitive i'd run it,less things to worry 'bout.Sounds similar to a percentage motor most of the latemodel guys ran,if you broke it you just sent it in and they sent you another one.


sdhnc29
Member
posted July 07, 2003 10:51 PM
Being an engine builder myself , I can relate to your builder on the cam issue if it is a custom grind . If it's a book grind , then he should tell you what it is . Generally on custom grinds that we have worked with our cam manufacturer on , these are grinds that we pay money for the masters to be kept for one year before they are given away to the public . I will tell any customer the spec's on their cam or give them a copy of their cam card provided it is not one of these cams , usually our latest design . This is a cut throat business , and an engine builder must keep on top of the game at all times . It's kind of like the local burger joint giving the exact ingredients to the "secret sauce" to a customer that thinks he needs it .

If you are happy with your current engine builder , and pleased with the cam that you are running , then I'd set your lash where your told to set it and go race . If your not happy with your cam , then speak with your engine builder and explain what you don't like about it . If he's open minded like he should be , then this should be a simple conversation with a simple outcome ..........a different cam .

You can always pull the cam out , since you bought it and own it , and have it checked on a cam doctor , or as stated above , stick a degree wheel on the engine , which will get you close . Be aware that this might not set well with your engine builder though . If you want to have his continued support , I would speak with him first about this issue .

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


dode
Member
posted July 07, 2003 11:00 PM
I know it is a box stock cam. Their words to us about the cam were:

The cam doesn't matter that much, its how you degree it in.

That didn't sit very well with me either. I dunno, maybe I don't know crap. What I am going off of is the cam specs that crane, comp, and a couple of other places said when I called them at the beginning of the year. They all basically gave me the same specs, only their particular version of the cam. I ended up using a crane wg-1064. It seemed to be working very well up until the rod bolt broke.

Thanks guys, and keep the opinions coming.

John

RangeRover
Member
posted July 09, 2003 03:14 PM
Over the years we have used about one each of everything at one time or another . Since 1990 I have used Crower for every cam that we have used in every engine , custom or not . I would suggest calling him (Dave Crower) and speaking with him if your interested in a cam for your application . You will find that he (Dave) is straight and to the point . He will not sugar coat anything that he says either . There is also no problem for anyone in the general public getting in touch with him . We have worked with him since 1990 , and I can not see changing cam grinders any time in the future . I've always felt that Crower is what most other grinders copy .

I have never personally used an Ultradyne cam . I'm sure that their book grinds are as good or similar to everyone else's since all the cam guy's copy each others grinds .

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


Ryan Lingner
Member
posted July 09, 2003 05:43 PM
Steve @ Erson is great to work with as well. Not a big company anymore after super shops closed and they do alot of one off stuff. I think Howard is also back in the grinding biz or at least that is what I was told. I still stand by my origanl take that if it is running well who cares what it is. The cam is just a small part of the entire package and changing it without knowing the flow rate of the heads and spring specs ect... you might do more harm than good.


dode
Member
posted July 10, 2003 08:52 AM
Well, we got the engine back last night, with a few surprises to say the least. Somehow the cost managed to be $1300 with no charge for labor, machine work, block, crank, rods, or heads, and we were only supposed to pay "cost" on parts. Speaking of heads, they were supposed to be 76 cc heads as we run a 9:1 compression rule with flat tops, but now we have @%$^@% massively ported 305 heads. These pair very nicely with the nice cast pistons, and $1 each rod bolts and $2 each valve springs that somehow are supposed to make this motor good for 6500 to 7000 rpms. Oh, and not to mention the cam isn't legal either, and we were given a "worked" quadrajet and charged $250 for it even though we told them we wanted to run the 4412 I had. **** I don't know how "worked" this thing can be if the air flaps don't even open up all the way. I'm so frustrated that I don't know what to do. The motor was supposed to be a 9:1 hydraulic cam motor and now I have a 11:1 solid lift motor with a carb, cam, and heads that I know nothing about. Sheesh...sorry for venting. It is just frustrating, especially when the person writing the checks knows nothing and will listen to just about anyone that acts like they know what they are talking about.

John

sdhnc29
Member
posted July 10, 2003 12:32 PM
I'd change engine builders . Sounds like your stuck with a real "winner" ( add an E after the I and drop one N , and you'll see what I really mean )

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


Ryan Lingner
Member
posted July 10, 2003 01:10 PM
Steve is right. I would run fast from this guy. Doesn't sound like this guy heard a word you told him about the rules. But if he was much of a builder anyway he would have know the local rules and had a package that he felt that worked. I wouldn't even put it in the car as you don't want to get the rep of someone that cheats. Although it doesn't bother some around my neck of the woods,ha. If the guy didn't return the money I would contact your local tech guy for the track and show him what the guy put togehter for you and show every racer you can find. Also repost to BBB and file a complaint at the city. I think he will come around after you tell him about how you will handle it if things aren't made right.


dirtbuster
Member
posted July 10, 2003 01:14 PM
dode,
If you want to PM me i might be able to recommend a few shops in the KC area that I have had good luck with. No sponsorship but you will get good quality work.


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