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Author Topic:   Synthetic Oil Question
o5racer
Member
posted May 10, 2003 06:48 PM
Is there any power gain to running synthetic oil in the engine? I heard a comercial a while that said 5% but I you know how accurate commercials can be. I was thinking of swiching anyway but I was just wondering about the HP thing.


racer17j
Member
posted May 10, 2003 08:29 PM
i read a few years ago in i believe it was stock car or circle track mag they did a story on oils and this winston cup engine builder did not recomend syn oils on dirt i guess the crude base clings to dirt better and helps clean the system better


speeronline
Member
posted May 10, 2003 09:15 PM
Remember to check the sponsor's stickers with getting advise from people.


sdhnc29
Member
posted May 11, 2003 12:40 AM
In the dyno testing that I have done , the lighter weight synthetic oil (Mobil 1 & Royal Purple) has produced a consistent 2.5%-3% gain . I'm not sponsored by , nor do I sell either oil .

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


superdave
Member
posted May 12, 2003 10:17 PM
Even better to use synthetic in the tranny and rear gear.

Good luck,

------------------
Superdave
______________________
www.salinaspeedway.com
Join the Salina Speedway Email list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/salinaspeedway


avila
Member
posted May 12, 2003 10:44 PM
Well a few years ago I tried the syn oil.
I did not feel any difference in the throttle
response nor did I see an increase in rpm at
end of straight. This was on a fresh motor.


outlawstock17
Member
posted May 13, 2003 06:47 AM
well, avila.....let me put it to you like this....could you swim faster in molasses or water?

regular oil is molasses, synthetic is water...and superdave is right...synthetic oil in the transmission and rearend will put more of your power to the back wheels...

if you still don't buy into it. rent a chassis dyno and use all dinosaur oils in your car, then change all the oils to synthetic. when you see the numbers you will not go back to dinosaur oil.

[This message has been edited by outlawstock17 (edited May 13, 2003).]

speeronline
Member
posted May 13, 2003 09:51 PM
I agree about Syn Oils.
In Fact, there is as much power lost in rotating mass in your car as power lost for wind resistance! So the less friction you have in the engine > Tranny > Rearend > Wheel bearing etc... the more power you will get to the ground faster and decrease lap times.
You can figer out the wind resistance on you own.
Speeronline


The Rascal
Member
posted May 14, 2003 09:38 AM
Synthetics definitely work…but the effects are somewhat minor…in general they cover or coat parts on a smaller molecular scale…and protect better while remaining “slipperier” and not only are a little easier for the motor to move but slide off the crank a little better…reducing windage.
Drivetrain frictional losses are a hair more perceptible…in an early 90’s drag program we learned quickly the merits of synthetic lubricants be netting .03 seconds quarter mile ET in changing the rear axle fluid alone. In that particular program the net result could be calculated to roughly 3.5 HP gain…in a bottle. Switching all the cars fluids to synthetic netted an approximate .10 second improvement…something which previously could be had by cheating and using an aluminum driveshaft …in a heavily policed class racing scenario…synthetics were very well worth it.
The last personal transportation improvement that comes to mind was my last 4wd…both axles, the auto trans and transfer case…netted just under 3 MPG on average.
Most cam grinders don’t recommend synthetics as they’re too slick to maintain tappet rotation…since they started taking sulfur and zinc out anyway…but you can additives including either of these two…along with heavy attention to detail during break in…to address that. Zinc tends to add the necessary friction only under pressure (as in valvespring pressure) and the full benefit of synthetics remain on all other surfaces. Isky RevLube2000 has all the right stuff and is a great way to take care of this during break in and beyond…Rascal


o5racer
Member
posted May 15, 2003 10:01 PM
Thanks for the info guys.


GO 24
Member
posted May 19, 2003 02:13 PM
I'd swear by Mobil 1 15w40/syn, I change it every 3 nights or so and compared to when we ran Valvoline 20w50 which we changed after every night---I'd never go back! I couldn't feel the horsepower difference either (3 to 5% just isn't enough to feel in your seat) but the bit thing is comparing the wear factors.
If ya wanna save some money and headaches in the future use synthetic oil & Wix/Napa air filters.


speeronline
Member
posted May 19, 2003 10:28 PM
M1 15/50 is great stuff.. I have run it for years! BUT, check out schaeffer supreme7000 20/50 racing oil! The blend is about the same quality as royal purple! for only $3.50qt. It has a lot stronger film strenght than anything I have tested.(including Mobil 1) But everone has their preferences and it is hard to change.... I just like to find the best!


Pickles
Member
posted May 22, 2003 05:42 PM
One consideration is; if you run alcohol some oils are not recomended. Mobil 1, while it is an excellent oil, is not recomended by Mobil for use with alcohol.

Another good oil, in addition to the ones mentioned above, is: Pennzoil 25W-50 GT performance racing motor oil.

It is "Designed for competition engines only". And is "Recommended for supercharged, turbocharged and naturally aspirated racing engines using gasoline, methanol or nitromethane fuels".

I figured if it was good enough for Eddie Hill's top fuel dragster, it would work O.K. in my little round 'd round car.

If you should want to try it, you will probably have to special order it from a Pennzoil outlet. The part number is #3623



cmiller51
Member
posted May 24, 2003 10:48 AM
Ditto. Pennz 25W/50. Good oil.


sdhnc29
Member
posted May 25, 2003 02:06 PM
Not knocking the Pennzoil , I'm sure that plenty of people are running it with success , but they have great marketing . Top fuelers run .005"-.006" rod bearing clearance (cold) , and they use 145lbs - 160lbs of oil pressure , with 60w and higher oil . They also rebuild each engine every 4 or 5 seconds .

Pickles is totally correct about the Mobil 1 not being compatible with Alky . They do make a type F oil that is compatible with alky for the F1 car's , but I've only ever seen it available on the East Coast . Royal Purple would be your best shot for alky compatible synthetic oil .

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


racerss10
Member
posted May 25, 2003 10:41 PM
what is the difference between royal purple racing oil and their regular oil.I started using mobil 1 10w-30 and now after the feature the lifters rattle but the motor seems fine is this normal.


racerss10
Member
posted May 28, 2003 03:58 PM
I answered the second question valves were loose. does anyone know the difference between the oil


HONDO
Member
posted May 29, 2003 06:27 PM
15-50 Mobil 1 gas mod engine. About 5hp gain on the dyno verses 10-30 havoline. No oil related failures. Engine looks like new when we pull it down. We change it every 3 races. It works for us.


mudslinger12
Member
posted June 03, 2003 02:22 PM
we have really been paying a lot of attention to this regular oil vs. syn. oil lately...we have a bmod..355, 9.5 to 1, engine...dirt track, the big thing here this year is the amsoil.. we heard also that syn. is not good for dirt track, we would like to be able to change oil only every 3 races or so, as we change every week now..is synthetic really the best thing???...and i do have to agree i think with the tranny and gear thing...we have never tried that either...steve, what do ya think, should we change???....thanks


sdhnc29
Member
posted June 03, 2003 06:09 PM
We have used and recommend synthetic oil in every dirt late model , or stock type class engine that we have built since 1992 . Any story about "synthetic's should not be used in dirt car's" is 100% pure BULL . I Recommend to my customer's either the Mobil 1 15w/50 , or the Royal Purple 21 or 41 . I recommend that they change the oil every 5-6 races if they race on track's that do not produce a lot of dust , and change every 3 races in engines that are exposed to severe dusty environments .

The synthetic oil will not only gain HP for you , but more importantly it will greatly improve the life of valve train component's and other high friction part's in your engine . Before we switched to synthetics back in "92" , we would have to replace roller lifter's in our late model engines at least once and sometimes twice a year (this was using Kendall 20w/50 , long before the zinc was removed ). After the switch was made to synthetic oil , the roller lifter life in the dirt late model engines doubled , and in some cases tripled . This same result was seen in rocker's , push rods , valve spring's , cam's , etc. etc. On flat tappet engines the cam and lifter life also doubled .

I guess I might be different from engine builder's who don't recommend using synthetic oil . In my opinion , if they don't want you using a synthetic oil , then they are only looking for the extra $$$$$$$ money they get to make when they freshen up your engine . I race too , and I know what it mean's to invest in a part or a product that will last , make a performance difference , and ultimately save a few dollars in the long run . This is why I recommend synthetic oil to my customer's .

As for synthetic gear oil , I've also used it since 1992 in my own dirt late model .

Steve

------------------
Hendren Racing Engines
Rutherfordton , NC
(828)286-0780


Racer X
Member
posted June 08, 2003 06:20 PM
I've had some dealings with royal purple, some in an engine and some in a 25 hp vacuum pump. salesman came in promising a current drop on 25hp electric motor so we gave it a test in a new pump to give it an accurate test and the oil turned to a thick gooie mess in about 250 hours. normal oil change 1000 hrs. we have about 30 of these pumps some running 6-8 years and still going now. we run chevron synthetic normally and do some testing in labs so I took 2 oil samples. sent one to independent lab and called in the royal purple salesman after the other sample came from lab showing oil broke down and metal shavings in sample. the salesman ask me what the shavings had to do with his oil and i showed him the gate. I'm just a small time racer and just an opinnion but don't put synthetic oil in an older motor. it will break down hydrocarbons inside your engine and you will have more oil leaks. the only 2 motors in my cars that ever spun bearings between refresh, both had royal purple in them.


Trophy Chaser
Member
posted June 09, 2003 12:05 AM
Just a bomber racer, but an extreme bomber ( 375 hp metric on race springs), I've run royal purple race 41 2 nights a week for 2 seasons. Dropped the radiator out (don't ask how) and raced 12 more laps. Shut the motor off with a t-shirt (she was a little warm) in the carb. Pulled motor, lighthone, new rings and bearings, made it for friday night racing. That was begining of last season. Religiously change the oil every 20 races (hehe, a little low maintanance). Car is still a top 3 car. Car runs excellent. side note, on the dyno the change in my buddys latemodel rearend fluid to royal purple was 12 hp, as done on site. Regular fluid vs. synthetic, back to back tests. Just what my luck has been, i'm happy


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