Visit The Dirt Forum for More Information

Author Topic:   Starter alignment problems PLEASE HELP!
FityX
Member
posted April 22, 2003 08:26 PM
I had this problem last year near the end of the season. The car was fine all year, no problems with starting it, but then the engine began kicking back when trying to start almost like it had to much advance (I ran a welded dist. and timed at 36 deg.). At the same time the started seem to have problems engaging, it would be fine for the first 5 times starting, then the sixth it would start to skip and seemed to grind both the bendex and ring gear a bit. I swapped the distributor for a light-spring weighted advance and changed my starter. Again, it was fine for the first 10 or so starts, the the same crap. Anyways, since then I have tried different ring gears and starters, tried shimming and grinding the starter, coming up with the same result. Over the winter I rebuilt the engine both balancing and blue printed it , and also changed trannies. I have exhasted myself with this problem. Any ideas, the season starts Saturday!!

Thanks
Sorry for the long message, just very upset.


towmandan
Member
posted April 22, 2003 09:13 PM
Tell me what engine were dealing with about what compression are you running a stock starter I know a few tricks that will help you....towman


FityX
Member
posted April 22, 2003 09:32 PM
Its a Street Stock with a 355 and powerglide. 12:1 comp, last year it was 9.5:1. Currently I have a stock starter on it but had tried a mini starter on it last year and ended up splitting it in half when the engine kicked back, and also bending a rod which I found out at the end of the year (sounds bush league, I know). With my 'timing ' problem, i though it might be the balancer that could have possibly spun, but it turned out ok. Whether the two problems a related or not, I don't know. Isn't this sport sapose to be fun?

[This message has been edited by FityX (edited April 22, 2003).]

towmandan
Member
posted April 22, 2003 09:46 PM
Ok first of all are you running the brace off the back of the starter it will help keep the drive into the flywheel. Another thing is wire your ignition where you can turn dist. power off and whirl the engine when its spinning good flip dist. power on boom it should start that way.Also have you checked the adv. weights under rotor to make sure the springs have them closed and there in proper alignment let me know what you think I can come up with more suggestions hope this helps....towman


FityX
Member
posted April 22, 2003 09:54 PM
I don't run a brace on the back of the starter nor have I ever seen someone run one before, but I'll try anything. I already have my ignition wired as you discribe, it helpes a bit but sometimes kicks back, but it is also hard to do when the garbage starting system doesn't work. As for the the weights, I will check them as soon as I can. Maybe I should install an air starting system like the big trucks, haven't tried that yet!


FityX
Member
posted April 22, 2003 09:57 PM
Forgot to mention, A friend of mine suggested that I order a new, not re-man starter and ring gear from the same year, make and model just incase there is any little variation from year to year. It may or may not work?!?. What are your toughts?


towmandan
Member
posted April 22, 2003 10:15 PM
I think there are 2 size flywheels that are common.That brace I was telling you about lost its popularity yrs ago but goes from one of the bolts that goes thru the back of the starter one of them is usualy a stud put it on there and it should line up with a bolt hole in the block.This is not a cure probaly but it will help.What kind of fuel are you running?Let me know Ill try to help you get it fixed...towman


FityX
Member
posted April 22, 2003 10:20 PM
I'll be running c12 or better


towmandan
Member
posted April 22, 2003 10:29 PM
What methods are you using to shim the starter some block and starter combinations can drive you crazy getting the shimming perfect.Im not familiar with c12 what is it?


SLEEPY GOMEZ
Member
posted April 22, 2003 10:29 PM
I did an article in Stock Car Racing I think in '01 on this subject. The short version is: If the starter has ground the teeth even once then get a new flywheel and starter or you will get a new flywheel and starter seperately several times. The problems arise in that there are aftermarket noses on "new" starters and much used noses on rebuilts. Make sure you are using starter bolts, they have a knurled shank.

The starter gear has a cut down area ahead of the gear. With the starter correctly installed (shimmed?)a 1/8" rod should slip between the cut down area of the starter gear and the top of a flywheel gear tooth like a feeler gauge. You can also use a .010" feeler gauge between the starter teeth (engaged position) and the flywheel teeth. Shim as necessary, but have the same shim under both bolts. Shimming one side can cause other problems. Once the gear is located to the flywheel, the starter must remain in that position. A brace on the end of the starter can help. But if the bolt holes in the in the starter nose are oversized and loose get a new nose cone.

These problems are seldom ever the fault of the way GM has drilled the block. Faults lie with used and poor quality aftermarket castings. Rebuilders use these castings because good used castings are getting hard to find. Go figure! SLEEPY

racer17j
Member
posted April 22, 2003 10:36 PM
i had thew same problem a few years ago untill i picked up on a hot tip on here i broke down and bought brand new starter and flex plate got it all lined up and when i start it i hit the start button and let it get turning before i turn the juice on to the hei worked like a charm not a problem since it helps fight the force of advance while it's turning unlike tring to start agains a firing cylender if you don't have it turning


towmandan
Member
posted April 22, 2003 10:40 PM
Thanks for the input I was trying to remember the gaugefor checking clearance after reading yours I remember now I use an 1/8in drill bit works great....towman


FityX
Member
posted April 22, 2003 10:42 PM
where you running a welded distributor or a a free weight one, just curiouse, and thanks for all the input guys!!


FityX
Member
posted April 22, 2003 10:45 PM
Oh yea, sorry Towman, C12 Is just a high octane ( 112 I think ) fuel that they sell up here, can't remember who makes it, but its the same as turbo blue.


towmandan
Member
posted April 22, 2003 11:23 PM
Thanks for clearing that up for me everything is turbo blue around here.What sleepy says on the starter shimming is the word. Also get the new flywheel and starter and start out fresh with those adjustments and Ill bet youll be in business that bracket I was telling you about is just a little Insurance it came factory in the 60s and 70s it just supports all that weight at the back of the starter P.S. pick ya up a pair of new starter bolts to if the knurl gets wore down on them it lets the starter walk around when cranking sorry so long...towman


dode
Member
posted April 23, 2003 10:40 AM
How exactly do you measure that clearance? I have seen it mentioned before, but how do you keep the starter and flywheel engaged and not moving to measure that? Thanks.

John

towmandan
Member
posted April 23, 2003 11:04 AM
measure between the starter drive shaft and the flywheel if you want to check and see how it looks cut a piece of coat hanger bend a crook on the end and pull the drive into the flywheel. That 1/8in. gauge we been talking about works perfect....Hope this helps....towman


Eljojo
Member
posted April 23, 2003 05:58 PM
Whoever said nose piece hit it right between the eyes! Get a new nose piece, NEW BOLTS and a new ring gear. Install everything at the same time and MEASURE your clearance. You haven't broke the bank and your grinding days are behind you.


towmandan
Member
posted April 28, 2003 12:06 PM
Will it start now? Let us know if you got fixed just wondering how much fun youve had...towman


FityX
Member
posted April 29, 2003 10:15 PM
Thanks for all the help guys. I replaced everything, new starter, ring gear, and bolts. Made sure the clearances were correct and the thing works minty now. After that problem was fixed it wasn't long befor the car was ready for racing. Crappy thing was that I kept fliping belts and ended up cooking my "new" tranny that I bought off a friend last year who ran it in his super stock with out any trouble. It wasn't a good opening night, didn't even get drunk. But a new sweet pump and pullies are on thier way here and the new tranny goes in tomarrow. All this to win $120 CANADIAN!!. Thanks again for all the help.
Tyler Gauthier


SLEEPY GOMEZ
Member
posted April 29, 2003 10:29 PM
Make sure your pulleys are aligned correctly. Close won't do! They must be aligned with one straight edge between the two. That straight edge must touch both sides of both pulleys. Then using 2 straight edges, one across each pulley, view them for parallel. Again, close won't do. Now make sure all brackets for accessories, pump, alt, etc., are not flexing under load causing mis alignment while running. I imagine I'll get some differing opinions but I have NEVER seen belts come off at less than 8000 rpm if they were absolutely, positively in alignment. SLEEPY


Back to the Archives