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Author Topic:   New Product from Layne, get the first peek here, only on The Dirt Forum!
jammin
Administrator
posted December 13, 2002 04:55 PM
Guys, gotta see this one...
The A.S.N. unit weighs a total of 42 lbs as shown. They have plans to knock off 6 lbs of the final design. Can be set up with or without the disconnected clutch. The transmission is less than 12 inches long and will swallow the inch longer slip yoke. This is as bulletproof as it gets.

www.laynemachine.com

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited December 13, 2002).]

Dirt Track Junkie
Member
posted December 13, 2002 07:29 PM
What is the cost? Or have they decided yet?


Pickles
Member
posted December 13, 2002 07:32 PM
Awesome! Now...how much???


Pigpen
Member
posted December 14, 2002 01:38 PM
I dont think that short design will work with a 4 bar car...


outlawstock17
Member
posted December 14, 2002 02:25 PM
way, way, way out of my price range. i can practically build a whole car for the cost of that sucker! i'm skeered to ask how much.


dean_7585
Member
posted December 14, 2002 04:04 PM
I'll test one for free !!! LOL


AlanP2
Member
posted December 14, 2002 05:01 PM
If they got any free ones, send one back east ....we will be glad to test it and even talk it up some the Bert seems to have the foot hold here at VMS


Racer X
Member
posted December 14, 2002 09:03 PM
guys, checkout http://www.laynemachine.com/LAYNE_ASN.htm for the latest pictures and more information.

John got caught by surprise in Texas by Racer X I guess, little did he know that while he slept Jammin and I were spreading the news to you guys.

[This message has been edited by LAYNE_Trans (edited December 17, 2002).]

Racer111
Member
posted December 22, 2002 07:55 PM
Looks nice but way way over priced.With IMCA approving Berts and Brins IMCA racers wont have to buy over priced trans anymore.!!


LAYNE_Trans
Member
posted December 22, 2002 08:38 PM
well I figure if you guys know the difference between a $50 junk yard transmission and a Bert/Brinn you are halfway home.

The ASN and Sniper both go a step beyond the others and make more power available and reduce the rotating weight. The better it is, the more it costs.




outlawstock17
Member
posted December 23, 2002 10:20 AM
layne, you sound like an advertisement. better does not always cost more. case in point: tylenol-$5.00 a bottle, acetaminophen-$3.00 a bottle. they both cure my headache, but the acetaminophen costs less.....that makes IT better.


LAYNE_Trans
Member
posted December 23, 2002 12:36 PM
The generic form of most things is made by the same people that make the more expensive version, but they save money by not advertising or putting someone elses "sticker" on the product. That or they copy the product that was designed and proven by their competition and fore go the development costs.

Given your analogy, a stock trans from a junk yard is cheaper than anything we manufacturers offer, so therefore it is bestů..wanna race ?

outlawstock17
Member
posted December 23, 2002 04:00 PM
layne, i race a ford so you probably don't make anything fit my car anyway, lol.

i'll buy a $75 all aluminum ford SROD transmission from a salvage, go through it and remove 2nd and overdrive, take the main cluster gear out of it and have a friend machine 2nd gear and the overdrive gear off of it and lighten 1st and reverse, then i'll put it all back together with new bearings and have $200-$250 in the whole thing. i'll use an assault weapon clutch or a ram coupler and spend the rest of the money i saved over buying one of your ASN or snipers on a spare engine.

don't take this wrong, your transmissions are a work of art, there's no doubt about it, but it has no place in an IMCA mod. IMCA should put a $500 claimer on the transmission too. if a guy wants to spend the dough to run an ASN or a sniper, he could sell one everytime he made the top 4, just like his 434 roller.

IMCA says the engine claim works. why wouldn't a transmission claim work too?

with a transmission claim in effect, would you still want to race? i can see everyone nailing the brakes as you take the checkered, trying to be the last one on the lead lap, lol.

whew! i need some tylenol,...i mean acetaminophen.......




LAYNE_Trans
Member
posted December 23, 2002 05:24 PM
If the claim rule works so well, why would there be a need to limit or restrict the motors as well ? A rule can only work if it is enforcable, and restricting internals requires tear downs. A claim requires a racer to hit the hip and roll the dice.

The argument has been made many times by me, pick any piece of a race car and you can spend from nothing to way too much for it. Simply stated, the modern day "modified class" is really an "aftermarket class", as you can buy whatever you want to buy or rather can afford to buy.

Want to buy a $3000 holley carb with fuel injection hid inside ? How about a $3500 MSD box with electronic traction control device hid inside ? How about a $6000 clutch assembly ? These parts are illegal in the class (assuming you are talking IMCA) but there is a market, or they would not be produced.

If you want to make something expensive, force a guy that knows it is an advantage to hide it. The guys that are running our ULTIMATE in hobby classes can atest to the advantage, and that truly is a $3000 transmission, you provide the clutch. And it is not illegal, it meets the rules it was designed and built for.

There is no way, NONE, that any rule can limit what a person spends if they are willing to lose their money.

Many people miss the entire point here. As racers you must choose what product or products to spend your money on, and what offers you the best advantage within your budget. You say if you were going to spend that much it would be on a motor, so you have a plan for your cash windfall..others save their money and buy a LAYNE. You race a red car I prefer yellow, what makes the world go 'round.

And yes, we sell units to fit Fords, Chryslers and about anything you could imagine. Our house car can run either a Ford or a Chevy with the same mid plate, clutch, transmission and bellhousing.

outlawstock17
Member
posted December 23, 2002 05:50 PM
do you support a transmission claim? why or why not?

[This message has been edited by outlawstock17 (edited December 23, 2002).]

LAYNE_Trans
Member
posted December 23, 2002 08:52 PM
Personally, I don't like any claim of any kind. Motor, shocks, transmission, none. But we race to the rules we have, so if I race IMCA I know I can be claimed.

A transmission claim will not help the class at this point. If the guys think there is no advantage in a Layne or Bert transmission, why would they claim it ? That would be admitting the transmission is an advantage, something everyone seems to deny openly.

I can (and do) hide the sniper technology in a totally stock appearing form, all it takes is money...more money, and guys pay it.

How about a rear end claim to eliminate the moly housings and gun drilled axles....or an ignition claim to eliminate the use of traction control....or a body claim to get the guys $500 lettering job.

Sadly most that use the existing claim do it for spite or desperation. Maybe, not always, but maybe, if the racers spent more on educating themselves on what works they would not throw $500 away to find a guy runs less motor then they had already. I know the big aZZ motors are out there so roll the dice. But be sure you have every other aspect of your own car right before you do.

You have to figure if a guy has $120 in valve covers, $200 in an intake, and a $300 pan visible you can not go wrong..the rest of it is free at that point.

Which you gonna claim, the $2000 tilton setup you can see with a guys shiny new muncie transmission or an old nasty lakewood with a busted up transmission ?

Anytime I thought about claiming I added up what I could see (valve covers, oil pan, intake, angle plug heads) so if the parts I could not see were nothing I still had something.

outlawstock17
Member
posted December 23, 2002 09:30 PM
he he, that was a loaded question. i already knew you wouldn't like a transmission claim. it would be even tougher to peddle those $4000 trannies with a $500 tranny claim.....lol.

i never said that a layne wasn't better than a $50 junkyard tranny. i was just making a point that my $250 rebuilt junkyard tranny and $3750 cash in my pocket is a much better investment than a layne. so you'll get 10-15 more rear wheel horsepower than my junkyard tranny. i'm racing a ford with n351 heads. i'll have 25hp more to start with, lol.

layne, your trannies are absolutely top notch. i saw the cut-away layne at the dewey, ok auction. they're just not affordable for the majority of IMCA racers, period.

i'm done. as bill o'reilly would say, "i'm gonna give you the last word".



LAYNE_Trans
Member
posted December 25, 2002 08:19 AM
Actually guys peddle $10,000-$15,000 motors all day long that run under the $500 claim, so you get twice the return on a trannie you do on a motor.

And I am glad you see the light and realize if you have $4000 to spend, and $250 goes on your transmission you need the other $3750 in the motor to compete.

outlawstock17
Member
posted December 25, 2002 09:56 AM
layne, i'll let you have the last word as long as you don't try to put words in my mouth with it. go back and re-read my last post. what about "cash in my pocket" did you not understand? i'm not putting more money under the hood to compensate for my junkyard tranny. i'm paying my freakin' mortgage with it.


LAYNE_Trans
Member
posted December 25, 2002 07:29 PM
Outlaw,

Sadly the entire class is not affordable for the working class, yours truly included. I raced mod's in the 80's and early 90's when you could afford to "compete" with the average racer. Back when it was truly a modified class and not the aftermarket class it has developed into. I also remember my first exposure to the class, about 1986 when Mike Cragg said look here (holding up a rule sheet)...here is a class we can race for 3 years with the same rules, looking back I should still whip him for that comment..LOL.

Today we know the truth, the rules **** sure do not stay put for 3 years, and every change costs the racer money either directly or indirectly. You throw away what is now illegal, or you have to buy what is now required.

Any class the survives 5 years is going to start getting expensive, and within 10 years it is cost prohibitive. The guys with the money have figured it out by that time, and these are the same guys that profit from selling that knowledge to others willing to pay to play. So what happens when the same class exists for 20 plus years ? In case you wonder, the first 3 Snipers are over 15 years old today and still in racing, do the math.

Today the average racer is a lot more financially backed or better be, as evidenced by the size of the tow rigs, the type of equipment available in aftermarket (and not just ours), and the money it takes just to get in the gate with licenses, pit passes, reserved pit stall rental, etc. Seems everyone (except Jammin' here on the forum) has their hand out to the racer.

We offer services to people like you that want the basics, your tricks in the ford trans get done all the time in our shop, at our regular shop rate or less. We also offer used parts, better replacement parts, and trick stuff. Everyone *****es about our so called $4000 tranny, but no one holds a gun to anyones head and forces them to buy, you still have choices and we try to cover the spectrum with racing. So no matter what the budget, we are there daily helping racers and supporting our products and customers, even the guys that spend a couple hundred bucks or less.

Guess it goes back to my earlier statement, no one, NOBODY, can limit what a guy is willing to spend to race, PERIOD. The claims don't do it, even the complete car claims like in Enduro racing. Anyone racing to make money better hope their job does not require a drug test because they are on something.

To the "average" racer, the type I know you mean by the comment, this is a hobby. To anyone in business, us included, helping the racers is a business. Your sponsors see it that way, the guy you buy your fuel from sees it that way, and the sanctioning bodies **** sure see it that way.

John (Layne) drives a 5 year old pickup, Bobby drives a 12 year old mini van, and I drive a 12 year old station wagon. The shop has been there for years and years, we don't have a giant store front or a fancy building, and live in modest homes....We do not get rich on these units, believe me.

We do it for the love of the sport, but also to be able to eat. Superdave, you say anything about me looking like I eat good I am thumpin you next time through Junction.

You have a good understanding, and all my comments are not focused at you here. Now get back to the family and enjoy the holiday, my woman is out of town until the end of the week so I can kill time with long responses..haha

Mike

outlawstock17
Member
posted December 26, 2002 12:33 AM
okay mike, i think you're a good guy. your points are well taken and are right on the mark. are you going to be at the holt's auction and trade show next to the chili bowl? if so, i'll stop by and introduce myself.

oh yeah, what's up superdave? you wanna piece of mike? LOL!

LAYNE_Trans
Member
posted December 26, 2002 07:40 AM
If I get out of state in January, I am planning to be at the micro races the week before the Chili Bowl, and I think John Layne is planning to be at the Chili Bowl. I have some friends that race micros and have been on me for years to come and watch that event, and since I letter race cars in my spare time, they have had me doing there two cars for many years.

Click Here to View Mad Mikes Temporary Sign Site

...this site is under construction and will soon be at it's own domain, so not all the links are working but you can get the idea.

Check out our welder (John Gorbetts) car driven by Greg Lueckert, it has been a player in the "A" feature for several years there at the Chili Bowl. Red "01" car, says LAYNE on it, go figure.

Superdave, wanting a piece of me ?? Naw, well maybe...we spar well but have known each other since high school. The poor guy is a tech official these days, so we keep him in business...LOL.

[This message has been edited by LAYNE_Trans (edited December 26, 2002).]

superdave
Member
posted December 26, 2002 02:54 PM
I think there is enough of Mike we could all get a piece. LOL



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