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Author Topic:   Cage kit ?
IowaFuzzy1
Member
posted February 16, 2004 09:21 PM
Has anyone built a mod using a CSC cage kit? Thinking of building another car ,don't have a bender and the price of their kits looks pretty good.

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zeroracing
Member
posted February 16, 2004 09:24 PM
sardeson is the ones that bend the cagres for speedway i guess a speedway kit is 700 with everything sardeson sells the roll cage and the front and rear bars in kit form for 300 you would just have to make your own frame x's i was considering doing that myself but zero is right look arouns i've sound several bar frames with body for less then what it will cost you to build a new one and when you figure in time labor and materials it's probably cheaper in the long run to find a deal like that


zeroracing
Member
posted February 16, 2004 10:23 PM
The Kits are good. We used two of there kits for friends, But it is a kit so it will require some fitting. Zero is right though, we bought a second car it is a Harris car 3 years old, we got the interrior tin and a roller chassis for $1500. That included the floater, fuel cell, guages, driveshaft and wiring.


racer17j
Member
posted February 18, 2004 08:03 PM
i'm not a big fan of csc stuff don't like those gussests holding my halo on and seen a pic of a hobby that rolled on there site that the cage colapsed on the one side thats not something i would put on my siter if i wqas tring to sell saftey


Ego Racing
Member
posted February 19, 2004 12:18 PM
The Halo gusset was the way NASCAR has done it for years. It was (and may still be) the only approved way to connect a halo bar to a cage by NASCAR.
If the roof collapsed what was the cause? If the car went on it's side and got hit in the roof and the driver survived it worked. No cage is going to survive a direct shot top the top of the car.


racer17j
Member
posted February 19, 2004 04:18 PM
this thing just did a barrle roll didn't look like any bumper marks to me i've seen some dang hard rolls in my buddies chassis and never bent not saying that it couldn't happen just saying i wouldn't be using a pic like that to advertise nascar may do that with the gussets but i still don't like it. just bothers me that a 1/4 peice of steel is the only thing keeping the protection over my head in place if i was to ever do an endo


Ego Racing
Member
posted February 19, 2004 07:37 PM
I agree it looks weak. When done correctly I think the bar is welded to the rear hoop and the gusset is welded to the top halo and the rear hoop.
I am going to check out the picture.


CAGEMAN
Member
posted February 20, 2004 07:32 AM
Jr motorsports sell a real nice cage kit, everything fits real good


Ego Racing
Member
posted February 20, 2004 07:45 AM
The Picture on CSC is a pretty rough accident. If the car flipped several times oe even got airborn and landed on the top the damage is not that bad. I have seen winston cup cars flip and slide and have like damage. Yes they are going faster but the cages are also stronger.
One thing you have to remember is he flipped the car and walked away. A cage must protect the driver, to do this on impact it need to absorb the impact energy, if not and it was solid it would kill the driver.
In a racecar with the driver strapped into the seat the legs, arms, and head are the only thing to move. If you make the cage solid and there is an impact the above mentioned body parts and NOT going to stop. The cage must bend and help absorb the impact and to do so it must bend.


Dman
Member
posted February 20, 2004 09:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dman:
I can't believe I was censored over using the word spelled with a B a U and a TT.It was not intended as a profane description.
Some one is entirely too sensitive.

I agree I was just trying to be a little softer and trying to make people think for themselfs.


racer17j
Member
posted February 20, 2004 04:11 PM
dman i realize the point of using a gusset on corner joints on the inside not on the outside i'll take a bar welded to my main roll bar over any type of gusset system you want to throw at me i just trust a 1 3/4 piece of tubing that is tied into the entire cage via door bars and kickers to not bend and trap me in over a plate welded to the top of a bar anyday if it was such a great system why does it seam that only the companies that build kits use them and not actully chassis manufactures?


Ego Racing
Member
posted February 21, 2004 10:57 AM
Racer17 You missed the point, NASCAR mandates it. There is NO other way allowed to attach the halo. 1 peice of steel 1/4 inch thick is over 3 times stronger than .095 tubing. Also is the fact how many times have you bumped someone with the car and one tube collapsed the other one? This CANNOT happen with the gusset. As for chassis MFG's using it has a simple answer, It takes longer to do and uses more tubing and welder consumiables. Which brakes down to costing them more $$


Greggie
Member
posted February 22, 2004 09:35 AM
Oddly, I'm with 17j on this one... I don't care if they use 1" plate, it's still attached to 1 3/4" x .095" wall tubing. That stuff rips easier than it bends. Furthermore, what we are talking about is not really a gusset. It is a flat plate welded to the outside of the main cage to which the halo attaches. A gusset is something that is put into an existing joint, spreading the load of that joint. I'll put 17j's halo attachment with 2 - 1/8" plate 1 3/4" gussets in it against CSC's attachment any day. Personally, I build my cars with gussets made out of notched tubing that is only about 1 1/2" long... Its actually stronger than the flat plate gussets (Yes, we did the test on a hydraulic press with guages). BTW, just because NASCAR does something, doesn't make it right... It doesn't take a rocket-scientist to require saftey equipment as simple as full-faced helmets, neck-braces, and even seat-belts!

Greg

fast_crew
Member
posted February 22, 2004 05:03 PM
Noticed today while watching the race that NASCAR no longer uses that type of hallo mount, Hallo mounts directly to rear of main hoop with small bars as gussets. (they had a close up of the cut away car after Long rolled)
Josh K.


Ego Racing
Member
posted February 22, 2004 05:38 PM
Remember the cut away car was bilt as a cutaway car and not a racecar.
If you correctly gusset it correctly it can be a strong joint. But I will forever stand by the fact that a 1/4 inch plate is stronger than a peice of .095 tubing.
I have been in wrecks on a track where the engine has left my car and I have seen first hand how the tubing bends and twists, I have had a slick blow on the top end in a 200 MPH quarter mile car and had to wait almost 15 minutes for them to cut me out of the car, a cage with one tube welded to the other will survive the original impact but when the second car slams into the pile is when you will find how strong what weld is. In a frontal impact the tube will crush into itself, after that the joint is junk, that is were the plate comes in. It dose not crush the tube on impact and reduce the strength it will also not allow the top tube to crush the rear hoop in a roolover.
Greg try welding both together then apply direct pressure to what would be the halo, then do the falure test. Once it distorts the strength is gone, even with gussets.


IowaFuzzy1
Member
posted February 23, 2004 10:32 PM
Hey guys, I didn't mean to stir up a major hornets nest,but it's good to see people really express their opinions. I run a frame shop for a living and have straightened several wrecked race cars. Believe me, gussets do make a difference,either the flat triangle type , the small tube type ,or the ones made from tubing cut to fit.
Thank's for the input,we are looking around for a used chassis,but we haven't given up on the kit idea.Thanks again

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CUSTOMPERFORMANCE
Member
posted February 24, 2004 05:05 AM
Unless you want to build your own modified to say you built it form a kit I dont advise using a mod kit. I know of several people that have used kits, they dont have all the small tabs and brackets your gonna need, some of the stuff may have to be rebent and all in all when you get done you will have more in the bare chassis then if you had bought a straight 1 or 2 yr old chassis.

[This message has been edited by CUSTOMPERFORMANCE (edited February 24, 2004).]

Elmo
Member
posted February 24, 2004 06:46 PM
It's interesting to know that Sardeson sells cage kits for mods. Does anyone have any more info on them?


racer17j
Member
posted February 24, 2004 08:05 PM
http://www.sardesonracing.com/roll_cage.htm
basilcy same kit as a speedway without the chassis x'ing and jigged tail clip

[This message has been edited by racer17j (edited February 24, 2004).]

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