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Author Topic:   NEED HELP!!
squid
Member
posted January 25, 2004 09:46 PM
I have 2 questions and looking for advice.

1st. I run a metric chassis and wondering the advantages if any of pinto front end. I know there alot stronger, but any big affect on front end geometry.


2nd. The rear susp is a 2 link and wanting to know who has and how did they like it running a short arm 2 link. have the winter to change and wanting to know how to set it up or close. would be goin from 17 & 18 in bars to 11 & 18 in bars. I would really like to find someone to talk to about this and help me if probs, i cant find anyone around my area that runs thhis set-up. thanx in andvace and any info would be greatly appreciated. squid


CUSTOMPERFORMANCE
Member
posted January 25, 2004 11:02 PM
Leave the right the same length as it is now and just shorten up the lr. This will allow very little rear steer on the rr while depending on how much angle and how much shorter the lr is to have more rear steer on the lr allowing it to move ahead similar in concept to what a 4 link reacts like . much easier to work with.

[This message has been edited by CUSTOMPERFORMANCE (edited January 25, 2004).]

zeroracing
Member
posted January 25, 2004 11:09 PM
Squid, that is the exact set-up I ran at nationals this year. I found that I had to put a bunch of right rear into the car (5 turns on the rr slider) to even get close. It really planted the left rear and was too tight. Once I got the RR put into it, the car was a rocket, but I never did get enough RR put into it, so I could have been even faster.

Greg

squid
Member
posted January 26, 2004 07:50 PM
thanx for the help. i was goin to leave the RR @ 18 in and move the Lr to 11 in bar. Greggie would appreciate if u or anyone could help me get this close from the start. would be awesome if i could get some ongoing help, i appreciate it all.

How much lead to you start with in the car, I am goin to leave a long panhard, was told helps with rough and dry tracks (slower reacting).

I am a pretty new driver and am still learning, i understand some but not all...

squid


racingcrazy
Member
posted January 27, 2004 06:10 AM
What kind of angles do you have in the bars? I have a sim. set up,and it too is a rocket. I repositioned the brackets for the trailing arms in the front to get more angle in them. I could only get 9 deg on the left side.I hope more angle will help, because I upgraded my motor.


zeroracing
Member
posted January 27, 2004 08:02 AM
I'm running a Dirt Works DW-8. I run the right link in the 2nd hole from the bottom and the left link in the top. When I go to the short arm on the left, I use a "plug", which is a bracket I made that is more or less a copy of the Dirt Works part that bolts into the 2-link mount of the chassis, and has another 3-hole mount on the end of it that makes it so you have an 11" arm and I run it in the top hole. At ride height, the angle of the short arm is the same as the long arm in the top hole. The biggest thing about short bars is they react quicker. That short bar gets nearly straight up and down as the car goes through its body roll. When I run the bottom of the track on the "stop and go" tracks, I'm getting about 12 - 18" of air under the LF and a lot of forward bite even when its slick., but the big momentum tracks don't seem to care which arms I have on (long or short). I don't really like to see that much air(it looks wild) because I think it can hinder you, too, but that much roll is inducing rear-steer which is a huge help. When you have rear-steer, you can run a tighter car (More LR) and the car won't really know it, because it is driving the rear-end to the right and, in effect, loosening the car at the same time. That's why the 4-linkers are so fast.

I also prefer the rear-mount panhard bar, but.... I run one that is about the same length as a J-bar. You can't use an axle clamp, you have to weld on a mount onto the "banjo" of the rear-end housing. My swedge-tube is 16" long. It is mounted on the left of the chassis and the center of the mounting bolt is at the top of the axle tube and the housing end is level with the center of the pinion. I've run the front mounts and I don't like them. It took too long for my car to get up on the bar. If I didn't get on the bar going into the corner and KEEP it on the bar, it really hurt me going off. I run my spring sliders staggered and when I pick up the throttle, it drops my PHB mount on the rear-end and MAKES the car roll. Also, for some reason, the car likes RR lead. I was up around an 1" at one time, but 1/2 - 3/4" is what I liked most. I could really go when it slicked off.


Well, I've given up about as many of my secrets as my conscience will allow for now...

Later,

Greggie

jonniet
Member
posted January 27, 2004 03:04 PM
Thanks Greggie , that is a similar set up to my new car but mine has either j-bar or short bar choices ...........but it sounds like I wont have lack of bite like I have had in the past with my leaf car ......cant wait to mash the throttle and hang on!!!!


dirtbuster
Member
posted January 27, 2004 03:10 PM
We were running our dw on short bars at the end of last season and it worked pretty good. short bar on both sides with about 12 degrees in each maybe a little less on RR WE made custom plugs so i cant say which holes they matched up with. WE never did try the short left/long right but it sounds like a good idea to me. Similar idea to the 4/z cars that are doing so well now. WE also ran our lr spring in front of the axle and rr spring behind and about 10-15# RR bite. Everythign really started working at the end and we just ran out of time to try anything more.


xhubby
Member
posted January 27, 2004 05:04 PM
dirtbuster, we just puchased a DW-8 that is set up for a 4bar. In our limited mod class,we can only run a 2-link & was told this car would work great as a 2-link. Our bars are around 12.5" from center to center of the heims. The chassis mounts are made for these short bars,(no plugs necssary). We called DW & was told that is what they recommend for their short bar setup. What can we expect from this setup? Last year we ran a DW-6 with the long bars, short panhard bar, bicuit pull bar,(track rule), 650# LF, 750#RF, 225#LR, 200#RR, 50#LR bite, & straight up in the rearend. What changes will we possibly have to make? 3/8 semi banked track, usually dryslick by feature time.Driver is very smooth with the throttle. Your the first guy that I've seen on here that is running the short bars on both sides, so I thought I'd jump in here & ask. Thanks for any advice you might have.


squid
Member
posted January 27, 2004 09:10 PM
thanx for the help guys i appreciate it ALOT.

But would you run this set-up or keep it to longer bars.
Are there any disadvantages to this shortarm long arm set-up.


zeroracing
Member
posted January 27, 2004 10:37 PM
the short bar both side set up will cause the car to change the thrust angles rapidly(this is why it causes so much bite on the lr) but on the rr it would loose angle quickly and end up with a lower thrust angle than a longer link if your not careful. good rule of thumb more thrust angle the more bite you get. by staggering the springs left infront and right behind you are loading the lr tire on acceleration and this wil ltighten up the car, on the right side it is unloading the tire so you are loosing bite on that side.
the best set up would be to consider a short bar on the left and a long bar on the rear, that way it will do a number of things
1. increase the thrust angle of the lr tire very quickly and get alot of bite.
2. it will keep the rr from loosing thrust angle to fast so that the car is more driveable
3. the longer rr bar will go over rough tracks much better.

the reason to go with a 4link z link is thrust angles not rearsteer, during body roll with a 4 link z link boths sides gain thrust angle. and the fastest 4 link z link set up actually has more rear steer than a 4 bar car will.

going with the lr short will help a ton. and like greggie has his will also help on entry(it will keep the rr from droping on decel tomuch.) similar to a double spring 4 bar car.
if it was my car i would go short lr and long rr and set my springs lr in front and rr front. to increase bite. if the car was too loose on entry then move the rr spring behind.
good luck.

[This message has been edited by zeroracing (edited January 27, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by zeroracing (edited January 27, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by zeroracing (edited January 27, 2004).]

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