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Author Topic:   Boubin Tire Raises Price???
Iowamod20
Member
posted December 21, 2003 05:06 PM
Has anyone heard about the G60 tires costing $95 now from Boubin Tire?

One of our local race parts store said it came across on his computer/price sheets that way.

ford5
Member
posted December 21, 2003 05:34 PM
Would that surprise anyone?


TRM38
Member
posted December 21, 2003 09:09 PM
It certainly figures that once the tracks around this area have committed to the G-60 15, that the sellers of this type tire would 'rise' to the oppertunity to rip us racers for all they could get...after all, are'nt we all use to paying that much and even more for what we had been running? GOD forbid anything ever gets cheaper around here when it concerns racing!!!


lucky13
Member
posted December 22, 2003 06:07 AM
Its called a MONOPOLY!
International Money Collecting Agency


brownstone
Member
posted December 22, 2003 07:51 AM
I believe that you are probably way short on that 8000 cars figure. You have to consider all off the tracks that are not IMCA sanctioned that run that tire. It would be hard to get a manufacturer to compete with the imca tire. First of all, they are not going to give as much as half of the profit away- they would want to sell for only $5-$10 less than the Boubin. Then it would be hard to get tracks to run them that were not sanctioned because they would feel like they would be running off racers who cannot afford to buy a new set of tires to race at that one track in thier area. Actually Hoosier has a new spec tire out that is VERY comprable to the IMCA g-60 and sells at most outlets for around $80.00 each. Hoosier is putting $1000.00 per division for tracks that run the new spec tire. They are having a hard time talking tracks into switching because of fear of loss of car count.

I don't know the answer, but I am glad that I don't have to pay $120.00 like the late model guys!

lucky13
Member
posted December 24, 2003 05:32 AM
the answer is asphalt take offs. our 3000 lb. outlaw stocks on $20 ea. grooved asphalt take offs are just as fast as our 2450 lb. mods on american racer $95 "hockey pucks". you'll never see IMCA switch to them because they will miss out on "picking the pockets" of everyone running their spec tires.

IMCA is about getting as much money out of the racers as possible, NOT making racing affordable......hence the license fee, the expensive, junky spec tire, the
mandated "IMCA" stickered wheel, etc., etc.

i could rattle off a whole page of stuff IMCA does that takes YOUR money and "magically" puts it in their pocket.

IMCA has slowly but surely brainwashed racers into thinking they have the best thing going. and they do have the best thing going......FOR THEM!

[This message has been edited by outlawstock17 (edited December 24, 2003).]

ford5
Member
posted December 24, 2003 06:10 AM
the tracks around this area, that we race at, are not IMCA sanctioned, and probably never will be. but we have just made the return to the IMCA stamped G-60 15 tire rule. this is a good thing in my eyes, but the tire dealer in this area has chosen to raise the price of these said tires to 95 bucks , apparently because he can! but we are all used to paying 103+ for the hoosier A-40s anyway....so it will still seem like a good deal to us...........(i guess)


superdave
Member
posted December 24, 2003 07:24 AM
I copied tis from the November IMCA newsletter.

"As you thumb through the pages of 2003 point fund payouts, keep in mind how those funds are generated. Track point funds are generated by weekly sanctioning fees each individual race track/promoter pays. They vary largely due to track schedules. Those who host more events likely have larger point funds.
Series point funds are a combination of sanctioning fees for each event along with sponsorship contributions.
State point funds for the 2003 season were sponsored soley by Longacre Racing Products. This is a significant program indeed when you consider the large number of state champions this organization has. Be sure to check out the story in this newsletter.
National point funds are generated through sponsorship dollars and license fees.
All totaled in 2003, I.M.C.A., I.M.C.A. promoters and I.M.C.A. sponsors will award more than half a million dollars in cash alone to our members. Sponsor contingency programs push that amount to nearly $650,000 when itís all said and done.
Thatís a big nut to crack and something we are very proud of. Thank you to all our sanctioned tracks, as well as our loyal sponsors for their efforts and all the racers for their support of I.M.C.A. racing in 2003.
Congratulations once again to all the I.M.C.A. champions this season."


That's $650,000. Six hundred fifty thousand dollars. Most people ask for better pay back than big money for the winner. Here it is. Most every sanctioned track pays 15 spots back from what I read.


Good luck,
Superdave


dirtrace
unregistered
posted December 24, 2003 08:07 AM           
paying back 15 spots next to nothing still adds up to next to nothing.

superdave why are you so into defending IMCA??



merlinmech2
Member
posted December 24, 2003 08:11 AM
All good points. For some of us, imca is the only game in town. I don't really have a problem with payouts or rules. What I DON'T like is the "imca spec." parts. When imca first started out, they were just what racing needed. Go to any track and your car will be legal and competitive. They've just gotten greedy. If they were really working for the racer they would'nt make us spend $100 for a $30 tire. One of the tracks around here dropped imca. I guess we'll see how it goes this year.


Dman
Member
posted December 24, 2003 11:56 AM
I like IMCA because I have spent plenty running non-IMCA as have most I know that have raced for 20+ years. The younger you are the less likely you will remember when all tracks changed enough rules to make your car illegal at the other tracks. The rules changed EVERY year to keep you locked in unless you built another car.

I like IMCA because I have talked to them enough (that's talking and not yelling and screaming) to understand why they do what they do. I'm sure they would love to sit down one on one with every IMCA racer until they understood why decisions are made but that would be impossible. I didn't agree with everything my parents told me to do growing up but with kids of my own I do now.

IMCA does the leg work by getting to tracks and talking to racers about IMCA rules and racing. You all think IMCA just makes decisions by flipping a coin but that is so far from the truth.

IMCA is about racers and promoters and WEEKLY race tracks not preparing you for your Nextel Cup debut or making your racing pay. Racing has never and will never pay. My buddies kids race motocross and are very good at it. They ride bikes that start out at $7000 and race for... nothing! Zero. Oddly he says there is little drama at the MX track and the racers are pretty good friends unlike dirt short tracks. Why is that? Money.

Talking about money the guessing game about how much IMCA makes didn't account for much expenses, salaries or R&D. How about attorneys fees and Regional Directors right down to shirts for track techs. Motel rooms for numerous people several nights a week and plane tickets to Texas and New York and California how many times a year?

No one mentioned the promoters and how they stay in business. All this talk about is about racers and nothing about promoters. The guessing game on how much promoters make is just as bad as the one about IMCA. The people making money in racing are the parts manufacturers.

As far as misinformation you can call the same numbers and talk to the same people I do. The misinformation in this post is all the guessing and finger pointing. If only facts were stated then the posts would be pretty short.

Good luck,
Superdave


lucky13
Member
posted December 26, 2003 06:47 PM
I can tell you that I work at a track every week as the head official and IMCA official and it's not because I get rich or even need the money. I have a 20+ year career already. I work there because I thought I could do a better job than the guy before me.

The racers hate me and love me depending on the night. When they get DQed they hate me but they know why because I take the time to explain as well as listen. When they win I'm there to shake their hand and congratulate them and put their picture on our website. When they think they were screwed I'm there to figure it and make it right if possible. Sometimes they just don't understand and sometimes we are wrong.

Say what you like but our car count and fan count just keep going up. We have built two classes from nothing to 20 car A features in 3 seasons. IMCA Hobby Stock and 360MODS. We average 38 IMCA mods a night. IMCA does help tracks that stick with it and stick to the rules. IMCA doesn't need to have the perfect rules they only need to be better than everyone else's. If there so bad then why have so many copied them?

The next time IMCA visits your track or you go to the Supernationals or Beatrice races stay sober long enough and hang around long enough to hear how much IMCA likes the racers and racing. You have them on defense so much it's hard to find time to thank everyone.

Good luck,
Superdave


dirtslinger66
Member
posted December 27, 2003 07:45 AM
Just look in IMCA'S backyard the number of sactioned tracks in iowa just keeps getting less and less every year. They are slowly killing them selves



NJantz
Member
posted December 27, 2003 10:01 AM
At our track last season, a first year stock car driver had one of his best runs all year, finishing second in a $1000.00 to win special($750.00 for 2nd). He was DQ'd because the IMCA sticker on one of his wheels did not match the serial# on the wheel. He was a low budget racer & had bought the wheel used. Our promoter called IMCA to see if he could get a list of the serial#'s so the racers could make sure the serial #'s matched, & was denied his request. Sounds like the only way to make sure they match is to buy brand new. Maybe they could charge for the serial #'s like they do the rules.


zeroracing
Member
posted December 27, 2003 08:34 PM
I would like to find the person behind the scenes at Boubin Tire that knows what Boubin pays for the tire. I would be more than happy to take all of the information to my friends at the Iowa Attorney General's office. I have been with the opinion that Boubin has been using an unethical price control system for years. I nearly had the information necesary to make a case in 2002, but my informant soured and would not give me all of the info I needed to do so (He was between a rock and a hard place). I will keep trying and one day, I will succeed, because I WILL get to someone who is willing to testify.

The tire that is mandated by IMCA is the most egregious of their rules. You can go out and purchase RADIALS of equivalent size for less money. Sure, IMCA gets money from Race Tires America... So what! IMCA doesn't set the price of the tire.... RTA does. Did you know that the chip and bread and milk companies pay the grocery stores for their placement in the stores? Somebody else on here said Hoosier pays $100,000 to a sanction for them to use Hoosiers. Goes to the point fund , I believe it said. I remember reading the IMCA newsletter and it said the national point funds were picked up by sponsors. I know I got a boat load of product certificates for my accomplishments this year, a lot of which was claimed as money distibuted in the IMCA Point fund. IMCA never got any money for what I received, just the credit for the amount in their point fund. While I am on the subject of point funds, your weekly track point funds are the direct result of the sanction fees paid by your track. In the modified class, the track pays $75 per night plus a percentage of the purse for the class(3 or 5 percent, I can't remember which). ALL of that money comes back at the end of the year. Some tracks actually put more money into the IMCA weekly point fund than they are required. That is the reason for descrepancies from track to track.

I never could understand why people who are not IMCA members are the ones griping the most. This may not necesarily be true for this thread, but as a rule, its true. People, if you don't vote, you don't have the right to gripe about your government and if you're not an IMCA competitor you don't need to gripe about them either, because you are doing NOTHING but being a whining cry baby pee-pants about something that doesn't affect you.

Greg

zeroracing
Member
posted December 28, 2003 10:51 AM
There is a tire out there that is not stamped IMCA, but is same tire.
I believe that Todd with USMTS uses them as of 2003.
Dont know about the price, but if more tracks allowed them instead of the IMCA stamped tire. That way IMCA would not get money from all modified drivers that were not licensed.
They would atleast be $5.00 cheaper since IMCA wouldnt be getting their cut.
That would put a dent in the ROOTS pocket eventually if all tracks allowed the tire.

I have ran IMCA and probably will again since tracks close are still sanctioned, but there are more of them dropping imca each year.
They change the rules each year, costing racers money, But thats a whole different story and subject.

I would like to find out where the NON IMCA tire can be purchased so i can let my local track know about them.

Anyone know where???

NJantz
Member
posted December 28, 2003 07:18 PM
The exact same tire that you are talking about is the old style ashphalt/dirt tire with the square edge. It is supplied by Boubin to some tracks that want a tire that is NOT IMCA. Lakeside in KC being one of them. It still costs the same, just no money to IMCA.

I recently called Boubin when Hoosier came in to the local tracks and offered money to the promoters to switch to their brand (no sanctioned tracks even close). We had been on the IMCA tire for years and I did not really want the upcharge and less durability of the Hoosiers. I was told by Boubin that they had NO control of point money and could not offer any help other than to call the local promoters and express to them how much an economic savings the G-60's were over anything Hoosier had.

Boy, they really work hard for their business don't they?

TRM38
Member
posted December 28, 2003 10:57 PM
"I never could understand why people who are not IMCA members are the ones griping the most. This may not necesarily be true for this thread, but as a rule, its true. People, if you don't vote, you don't have the right to gripe about your government and if you're not an IMCA competitor you don't need to gripe about them either, because you are doing NOTHING but being a whining cry baby pee-pants about something that doesn't affect you. "

Since when did the IMCA become a democratic association of government by, for, and of the people??? Did I miss something??
I have heard NASCAR refered to as a "Benevolent Dictatorship" and I would say IMCA is all of that and less. (nothing really "benevolent") I think all IMCA cares to hear from me is my $110 for a license. Nothing else.


fastow
Member
posted December 29, 2003 01:04 AM
I see alot of complaining of what these tires are and what they cost but does any one have any idea of how many tires boubin actually makes and sells each year and what does it really take to build a tire.(HARD FACTS NO GUESSING) Like some have said this tire is primative with no rating, no warranty, bias tire there is alot of material in this tire compare it pound for pound LOL but I would think it would be cheapest of cheap tires to make. Unlike chassis and other race parts we all use where its fairly easy to see\figure how much material and labor goes into some of this stuff its amazing sometimes when you look at one thing and you see count less hours invested plus the materials and you think wow someones working for alot less than I would want to. but then you look some other things and its wow we payed that for that little bit of nothing. who knows wheather boubins making anything or not but with no competition and making all this tires all the same size compound and I would bet the materials they are made out of is the cheapest materails possible and why shouldn't they be when we use them tires a couple weeks or so then throw em out for new ones. I think these tires would fall into the catagory of wow we pay that for this little bit of nothing. But I am just guessing like it sounds like the rest of us are, we need to find some input from someone thats in the tire building field. If any of you guys know boubin or any of there guys invite them onto this site for some input would love to hear that. LOL


Dman
Member
posted December 29, 2003 08:15 AM
Some people just have a problem with authority and don't like to play by the rules.We have run under different sanctioning bodies over the years in a couple of classes.All that happened was rule change after rule change until the class priced itself out of business and got dropped due to low count.Alot of this was due to promoters listening to the high dollar guys that claimed to be responsible for filling the stands.Soon the promoters take the advice of these guys and make changes like roller cams ok on an 8 in. dot tire ( like you really can use all it has to offer power wise),cylinder head and intake claims only at 800 to 1000 bucks,Its OK to use the old IMCA tire if you want to (its softer than the newer tire).So now you carry even more tires on the rack and have another excuse for finishing poorly.Why is it the street or pure stock classes flourish?It happens everywhere and in every association after while. Just wait. It will happen in UMP,USMTS and other series too if you stick around long enough to see it like we have.
I believe that IMCA is hard nosed for a reason.The changes they have made over the years are pretty few compared to other Associations.I'm not an IMCA official just a participant.
Don't knock IMCA for a bad call when it was made by your local officials.It happens all the time.Folks,This is a hobby and don't forget it.Everyone makes a bad call now and then.If you can't handle rules,,,,go buy a boat or buy a street rod and cruise.It's alot easier on your families and friends than being ****ed off all the time over a claim or bad call at the track.There is nothing worse than a tantrum in front of your family and friends.
We race because we love it not because we expect to be a Cup star.If you want to be a cup star the dirt is not the place to be discovered.NASCAR is not the little guys friend,That takes big money.The other associations are there to take advantage of you being mad at the large ones and getting your money.NASCAR and IMCA are still the largest for a reason.Whatever that is.You'll be more successful and popular if you do it with a good attitude.
So lets keep it in perspective here.If its not fun go do something else that is. Dman


dirtrace
unregistered
posted December 29, 2003 08:56 AM           
Nascar has all levels of classes.

Go look at the Nw region pts, the 2nd place car was a hobby stock. A very cheap affordable class, he came within one win of winning the region, and over 46,000 dollars.

His tires are 65 a piece, 12 would last all season, ft pistons, hyd cam, 2 barrel,stock shocks. No posi, cant get much cheaper than that.

THE PROMOTERS AT EACH NASCAR TRACK CHOOSE WHICH CLASSES THEY RUN IN THE NASCAR TIER SYSTEM.

heres a link to nw region. http://www.nascardodgeweeklyseries.com/northwestregion/default.asp