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Author Topic:   new claiming rules
bkap
Member
posted December 05, 2003 09:24 PM
A bunch of tracks in my area just got together and started a new non-IMCA Modified organization that will supposedly use mostly IMCA rules. The claim is now $500 or swap (claimee's choice, as I understand it) and anyone on the lead lap can claim anyone else on the lead lap. Anyone else doing that? How'd it work? Did it increase or decrease the number of grudge claims? How about the total number of claims?

Thanks.

66jj
Member
posted December 05, 2003 09:35 PM
they have swap around here as a option in pro am street stock, and grand nat late model.

they had no claims in grand nat for the first 3 years then this year they got some junkers swapped, and changed the rules mid season, dropped the claim, then re enacted a new claim for 2000.00 plus headers intake etc everything if diff make. I dont see the big deal even a junk swap was fine, the class has spec heads intake and 360 cube limit. the claim amount was 1000.00. so you got a set of heads intake and block at the minimum that finished on the lead lap..... there are 2 ford motors for sale from that claimer class on the local classifieds, 17,800.00 for one and the others a bargain at 9800.00. in my mind it hasnt worked.

the pro am class has had less than 5 claims ever in a total of 3 years. it has only a spec intake, and swap option, if someone claims someday and swaps out junk, since they can run any junk heads etc, I am positive they will change the rules and or drop the claim. the motors in this class are 45-7500 if you assemble yourself etc you could build what guys are paying 7500 to get for about 4000 from pan to intake everything, but thats still a lot in my mind for a 2 barrel 360 cubic inch limit motor...

these two classes run at several tracks around me and surely prove the claim swap isnt good in my mind. Im building a imca car. I would rather choose whos motor I take home, when and if I do. rather than someone giving me one they were more than willing to give. I can build some pretty cheap givers that can stay on the lead lap for the measly 15-20 lap mains that are ran.

Good luck from what I have seen and talking to the promoters around here imca has the only claim with teeth, and that doesnt require a lot of teching etc.

madmodshoe
Member
posted December 05, 2003 10:20 PM
What IMCA has that non of the others have is the penalty for not selling. Not saying i like it, but it does work to keep cost down.


racer17j
Member
posted December 06, 2003 08:43 AM
our claim is like imca for the lower classes no claim in our mods but i would think grudge claims would go up if you could claim anybody that would be kinda nice i know 2-3 guys that i would like to claim just because i know they don't have another motor but the one real nice one and thats to much or them to handle and they crash all the time and never make it into the claim area. think i'd be duing them a favor by swap'n with um lol might be able to control the car and actully finish and not take us all out in the proccess


zeroracing
Member
posted December 06, 2003 09:36 AM
Aveng


I agree with the draw from top 4, I got tired of seeing a guy who finally ended up with 2 race ready I stocks, keep putting diff drivers in his 2nd, and claiming his primary to give himself claims to use when he went out of town..

then both cars went to texas and backed out of top 4 last lap and both claimed..

that is a bad loop hole in imcas claim, because you cant prove the ownership of a car, the draw would get rid of that, but then do they need to eliminate the rule that you can only claim a person once??



racer17j
Member
posted December 06, 2003 09:53 PM
thats an ez one to fix you get one excepted claim a year would put an end to all of it. i like the pull a number deal we did that with our cruiser class guy put the money up got the hat with all the cars in it no refunds you get what you draw no backing out needless to say nobody ever claimed


irace74
Member
posted December 07, 2003 06:22 PM
What if we all got smart and ran sealed motors from GM or Jasper or someone. Everyone runs a 383/377/358 spec motor. Costs everyone $5000.00 for a race motor and that's it. No claims just verification of the sealed engine. Seams alot simpler to me and let's us all buy a piece which can have a good crank, rods etc and can live through a season. I know IMCA and other sanctioning organizations won't go for it but the $10,000+ motor programs are killing the class.


bkap
Member
posted December 07, 2003 08:27 PM
Thanks for all the replys. I guess we'll have to see how this works in a few months. I like the claim + swap deal but don't necessarily like the pill draw of the top four. If you think you are being out-motored, why not claim that one car? Why mess with the others in the top four?

I'm not sure how allowing anyone on the lead lap to claim anyone else on the lead lap will solve anything. Seems like an open door to grudge claiming.

On the sealed engine deal, I run all stock stuff and they live a long time without costing nearly that much. I just take care of my engines and we build them right the first time. That's all part of the deal: if you want to twist you motor really, really tight, you put good parts in it. If your track has a claim, that's the chance you take. It's a gamble.

superdave
Member
posted December 08, 2003 08:42 AM
The idea of the claim is to buy the most expensive ground pounder that doesn't belong in the weekly racing class. Drawing a number doesn't remove the big motor. It only give the guy with one a chance to get away with the purse and his late model engine.

You pick who you claim because that's who's motor you want. People talk about racers who see only a few top 4 finishes and then get claimed. The drawing could do the same thing. Guys first ever top 4 finish and his number comes up? Only one motor and his number comes up? He passes the big wreck in turn 4 to take the win for the first time ever and his number comes up?

The drawing doesn't tell a guy that his motor is too big for the class. There are pitfalls to it also.

Good luck,
Superdave


mdsteacher
Member
posted December 08, 2003 07:40 PM
you can throw out 100 different situations plain and simple if you can aford one 5000 motor chances are you can aford two it's not working plain and simple guys are not afraid to spend the big money any more because most of those guys get the stuff sponsored to them or get a heck of a discount becuase they buy 15 motors a year.it's a great selling point for these shops to have the super nat or reginal or nat champ using one of your motors or chassis. these guys can't be hurting to bad look at all the 100,000+ haulers these guys have now you think that motor is hurting them if they lose it they just go get another the days of 4 guys in a crew cab truck and a open trailer with 3 spare tires on it are just about gone sad realy but thats the nature of the beast. thats why we have b mod classes now so we can try to get back to that somewhat


lucky13
Member
posted December 10, 2003 06:23 AM
People who spend too much get tired of losing engines. Thy do go away OR we all end up with better motors for $525. At Salina Speedway we have a couple claims per year with 36 mods a night and most have good stuff. It keeps the level of spending at what the racers think is acceptable. If the guys at our track think what they are racing is fine then no problem. When the big 9000rpm motors pass 3 cars down our short straights then they get claimed. The claim is the one thing you control at the racetrack. When you don't claim the last thing that keeps people from doubling there engine cost is gone and out comes the biggest motors. UMP is expensive most people that race it will admit it.

Swaps don't work. IMCA put the swap in and claims went down. It's a good idea but it doesn't really. As far as haulers, money saved on engines could be better spent to make racing easier. Like the ride to the track and back. More than 50% of our cars don't have enclosed trailers.

It's all perception at times. If you know you can lose it you think twice before spending. Big trailers mean good racers right? Wrong. Many a crappy driver can afford a good trailer.

The Sportmod got it'd first sponsor this week. You have to crawl before you walk. Anyone can copy the IMCA mod and change some things but's still not their own idea. IT takes guts and nuts to start something new and IMCA has done it successfully more than once already. Everyone else is just riding on their coattails.

Good luck,
Superdave


racer17j
Member
posted December 10, 2003 05:17 PM
thats great they have a sponsor heck i'd put up a million to sponsor a class that has no cars lol
other then the mods what class did imca come up with ?


lucky13
Member
posted December 10, 2003 05:48 PM
Well, here's the deal as it stands today in Arizona. One track has announced (they waited until a delayed newspaper article came out) that there is a new statewide organization, called Southwest Dirt Modifieds (SWDM). The one track has been promising official rules but, after a few weeks, has yet to produce them. Some of the differences from IMCA that they have announced are the $500 OR swap by anyone on the lead lap against anyone on the lead lap. IMCA-approved wheels not required. No IMCA tire stamp. (Can you say tire compound wars?) That's it, as far as I can remember. The one track, Manzanita Speedway in Phoenix, has said they are "relaxing" some of the IMCA rules but, as I've said before, they haven't released them yet. They do say that if we ran IMCA or the Barnett series in Texas and New Mexico, we'd be legal for the new deal. That doesn't mean a lot to me as it's happened to me before, like when our Late Models started allowing aluminum blocks and said they weren't required. Kind of a slight of hand, if you ask me.

Racers at the other Phoenix track, Canyon, apparently met and voted to stay IMCA, although there is no indication that the vote actually means anything. None of the other five tracks supposedly part of the organization have said anything officially about what they are doing, as far as I know. At least their Web sites don't mention the new sanction.

I'll probably mostly run at home on our new Tucson track -- United Sports Arizona (USA), which is said to be part of the new deal -- this year, no matter what sanction they have (unless this get totally outragous). BTW, this is going to be a class facility. I don't know how good they'll be at running the place, but they are rebuilding it right. Hope springs eternal.

One main reason cited by Manzy is keeping the money in state. I guess that's no as big an issue for me as it is for some of the guys. There has been nothing released about insurance, appeals procedures, officials, or anything else for that matter. Personally I liked running for IMCA whenever I have. I like the consistent rules across the country and have been treated fairly most everywhere I've raced with them. I think the claim rule has helped the organization grow. However, the costs got out of hand several years ago, which was added to by allowing rear starters and pumps and that sort of thing.

I've never been claimed and am sure I won't like it when it happens. But I'd just as soon be claimed by someone who thinks I finished up front because of an expensive engine, rather than by a guy who thinks I did him wrong with a close pass when I finish tenth.

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