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Author Topic:   Clamped 6 Link
mod4
Member
posted November 04, 2003 07:17 PM
Looking for anyone who has taken a D&M 6 Link car and clamped the LR Spring.

Either way, I'll be trying it this weekend, but I have a few specific Q's if anyone here has done this. Thanks.

dirtracer14
Member
posted November 04, 2003 09:07 PM
I would say hang on if you clamp the lr on a 6 link but that is just me. You are going to clamp the swing arm birdcage?


mod4
Member
posted November 04, 2003 09:20 PM
Well, on the 6 link I have, the two radius rods are on one birdcage, the shock, spring, and trailing arm share a second 'cage. I am going to clamp the spring/shock/trailing arm cage.
The track I am racing at is odd, it's like a mini Martinsville on dirt : two drag strips and two tight corners. I get in great, but the cars carryin' the LF pull me off. I don't care if I carry it or not, I just need the same amount of fwd bite they have.
I've driven a Hassy, where I had the LF way in the air, won with it. My 6 link is dead flat, and won with that too .... but the Hassy for all it's bad habits went fwd better.
I'm going to try and control the tote with preload on the upper link.


dirtracer14
Member
posted November 04, 2003 09:44 PM
I have won lots of races with my 6 link on aa few diff types of tracks. The track i race at was like that had fast straights with tight turns. What sping rate you run on rr and were is the panhard bar....i am assuming you have the long behind on the clamp bracket? I had mine were i would just get about 2" of easy air under the lf and it would launch coming out....


mod4
Member
posted November 05, 2003 12:13 AM
I've never picked the LF up.
I run a 200 or 175 on RR, Panhard I run about 5" higher on the frame side, I run the long behind with the axle clamp 1" lower then the tube.
Thanks for the input, keep it coming please!


dirtracer14
Member
posted November 05, 2003 08:45 PM
You CANT clamp the swingarm cage without unhooking the z link bars or you will have a big time bind!! Now if you use a clamp bracket and take the swingarm off. If you take the z link off you will have a 3 link lr with not much steer or drive on the lr. Now if you use the clamp bracket and pull the swingarm off then you have a z link that has no adjustment in bar placement! You ever run the panhard flat or within 2" of rear side....I also went 2" down on my rear side of the panhard from center with it flat or no more than 2" rake. I also ran a allstar bar for the top link with not much angle unless it got real dry! I hope this helps some...


mod4
Member
posted November 05, 2003 11:12 PM
I have clamped the birdcage that holds the Spring, shock, and trailing arm. From where the rearend can travel, 3" down (to where the rear touches the lower frame rail) to the point at which the spring (almost) binds - I cant get there without tying the chassis down - the car is totally free.

The 'cage with the "Z" rods is happy and free.

Having driven the car up and down the road in front of my shop, it doesn't "feel" like what I did made a huge difference.

I'll race it saturday. win, lose or step on my crank, I will post pics and results.

dirtracer14
Member
posted November 05, 2003 11:42 PM
Do you have the notch on the lr lower rail or was it when they changed the lower bar to allow more travel? I really cant see how it wont bind? I dont have my 6 link anymore but haveing spent many many hours under it i would think it would bind up. How much steer did you get after you clampped it? Please let us know how it does.


dean_7585
Member
posted November 06, 2003 06:31 AM
This is getting interesting !!! I just picked up a D&M 6 link from a friend. He did very well, but seems like those guys picking the LF are getting a better drive off and I want that too !!! It currently has a 200 and a 175 RR, If I drop it down to both 150's will that help a little ???


mod4
Member
posted November 06, 2003 11:21 AM
Dean,

For my driving style, my car responded well to a larger split the what most people consider "normal" in the rear springs (LR stiffer).

I'll post results for the clamp after Saturday.

dirtracer14
Member
posted November 06, 2003 07:00 PM
Mod4 how did you clamp that cage?


mod4
Member
posted November 06, 2003 08:51 PM
Okay,

On the LR .. the outside birdcage has the forward and rearward radius rods. I left it alone.
Next is a spacer.
Then is the birdcage with the trailing arm, the spring on the arm, and the shock behind.
On the inside, there was a 1/4" clamp to hold the cage in place.
I removed that, and replaced it with a 2" bracket. On top of that bracket, and on top of the birdcage with the trailing arm and spring, I welded two sets of ears. Because the trailing arm doesn't "index", I can put the bolt in, or remove it if the car is jacked up or sitting on the ground. When I put the bolt in, the birdcage with the arm and spring is then solid with the rearend housing.

It was a lot simpler doin it then typin it, lol.

dean_7585
Member
posted November 06, 2003 09:01 PM
I have thinking about putting a J bar on, Do you think this might help ???


dirtracer14
Member
posted November 06, 2003 09:09 PM
Sounds like a good idea the way you did it when i got my new D&M car the rear brackts had a ear like you are talking to keep the bracket from turning. You may want to look at putting a 4 bar on the lr? I wish i still had mine.... i would put the 4 bar on it or run a short wishbone on the lr. Let us know how it works!


mod4
Member
posted November 09, 2003 09:07 AM
Last night I got to try it out :

The track was soaking wet for warm ups, like "way too wet to race on" wet. So other then throw some clay around, I couldn't tell much.

Drew a high pill, started at the back of the heat, track still WAY too wet. Ended up third, and wasn't impressed with the car.

Did some thinking before the feature. The track was finally about race-able. I took most of the pre-load out of my upper link, my idea being to allow the rear to rotate against the clamped LR harder. It worked.

Started 5th, was passing for second place about 8 laps in, car was great - and I tore high gear right out of my Saginaw. At first I thought I blew the clutch or lost the driveshaft, but reverse and low still work fine. I've been running them since 94, never had a problem .... between making more power and hooking the car up harder, I think I pushed my luck too far.

Gonna try and make the last three races of the season, will report back when I get more time on this setup.

dean_7585
Member
posted November 10, 2003 06:06 AM
Hey Mod4,

Can you email me a pic of what you did to clamp it down ?? Dean7585@msn.com

Thanks

fastow
Member
posted November 10, 2003 07:48 PM
I will post pics ASAP.

What I was trying to accomplish was increased dynamic LR weight and bite.

I will go more into detail when I post pics.

dirtracer14
Member
posted November 10, 2003 11:09 PM
Hey mod4 i dont have my chassis any more but is the front mount for the z link on the lr above or below ceter of housing at ride height? I would think if you put a wishbone on the lr using the mounting hole for the z link you would increase the dynamic alot by using the bars as levarage.... wish i still had mine....i have learned alot more about it once i played around with the wishbone z link 4 bar deal


dean_7585
Member
posted November 13, 2003 05:52 AM
How would the wish bone on the LR work ?? Where would the spring slider mount. I haven't heard much about the wish bone, but I might be interested in trying it.



Majic Maker
Member
posted November 14, 2003 03:40 PM
I've ran a wishbone on both sides before it seems to work okay,I've drove faster two links.If you run a wishbone on both sides make sure you Don't mount the springs on the birdcages,Lr in front on a clampbracket and rr on top of housing.



dirtracer14
Member
posted November 14, 2003 10:26 PM
I ran both springs in front clamped on my wishbone.... i am changing the rr to go on top and maybe the back for next year also a 4 bar lr just for kicks


mod4
Member
posted November 23, 2003 11:29 AM
Finally I got a picture.

Looking straight down at the LR.

The Outer Birdcage is floating. has the two radius rods on it, top one goes forward, lower one going rearward.

The Inner Birdcage normally is floating, with the spring on the trailing arm, and the shock behind.

Directly behind the spring, on the cage, I welded a bracket. Inside the Birdcage, on the axle tube, I welded another bracket on a clamp mount that I tack welded to the housing. With the bolt through both brackets as shown, the spring is now "clamped" to the rearend, and is reacted upon when the rear rotates backwards upon acceleration.




dqr-7
Member
posted November 23, 2003 11:59 AM
Yep.
Except I have driven three link cars for 5 years, and this isn't the same/doesn't feel the same. I guess the difference is the completely floated R/R. Unless somebody else can explain the effect if any of leaving the radius rods attached .... maybe they provide additional effect.


mod52
Member
posted November 23, 2003 08:30 PM
The trailing arm doesn't swing enough in 3" of bump or droop to bind. That was what I accomplished by being able to insert the bolt at both bump and droop, convincing myself that it wasn't going to bind.

Here was my original thought : on this setup, the ONLY thing stopping the rotation of the rearend is the pullbar, since everything else is floated. So by clamping the LR spring, it's now "sharing" part of the reaction to rotation once only absorbed by the springbar. This should give me static LR bite.

I didn't draw any of this out, I just did it, and as long as I start with the z link cage indexed correctly, the movement of the LR is equally free bolted or unbolted.

I only got to drive it once on a wet wet track, but I really enjoyed the results. Next season I can give more input ....

dirtracer14
Member
posted November 24, 2003 08:43 PM
Hey mod4 if it wont move enough up or down and you can take the bolt out at top or bottom then it is really not doing anything and will not give the reation that you are looking for. You said you were looking for more static bite from loading the lr spring? Well if the birdcage doesnt move in the 3" that you have from bottom of housing to top of the underslung bar then it will not load that spring under throttle. Now also add the fact that the spring is on the bar and not the rear it would take a lot to get the lr spring load you are looking for. Does your rear hit the underslung bar on the lr? I tore mine out 2 times befor i had to make a bend under the rear to keep from hitting it on the bar. I also ran 15" springs in the rear. Now that you have the winter to work on the car i would look at making a mount off of the inner birdcage to mount the spring on and take the swingarm bar off and run it as a z link with the spring in front of the rear. But if it was me i would make the lr a 4 bar with the spring clamped in front...but thats just me


mod4
Member
posted November 25, 2003 07:02 AM

With the LR springcage/trailing arm now "clamped", as the rearend rotates backwards against the springbar, it now torques against the LR spring. Up and down travel of the axle and axle wrap up under acceleration are two different things.

Read my earlier post, I took all the preload out of the springbar (more rotation) and it planted / lifted the LR more. Somehow, it's working.

When you are visulizing this, don't forget that the center of the spherical bearings can rotate, on the trailing arms.

I didn't have a problem with LR axle and frame clearance on the wet track, I also run the LR pretty low. If it becomes a problem, I'll address it .... then again I may be ready to just try something completely different

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