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Author Topic:   short pan hard
posted October 27, 2003 11:51 AM
I have 2 link with springs on top of rear, they are 200lr and 150rr took off long pan hard and put shorty in front 16" long.Tried short bar even with pinion to 2' below with about 2' of rake in it. The problem we had is it made our car tight as ****! We went down to even bite on the rear tires. Should we have put more right rear bite in to free it up, should the bar be flatter? It had good side and forword bite, but just could not turn .Allso the right front wanted to dive so we went from 700lf,700rf to a 1100rf to tame the right front down, this really made the car feel ridged.If I would have flattened the bar, lowered on the frame side, would that have stopped the diving in front and the push? I looked at other shorty bars and they seem to get by with more angle, unless they are running detriot lockers?

posted October 27, 2003 12:13 PM
how did the car handle with the long bar on there??? normally putting the shorty bar on will make things happen quicker... its a throttle loose, putting that 1100 pound spring in was over kill, try a 800 rf spring instead of an 1100, also your pull bar has a lot to do with a throttle p ush... how much rear percent do you have in the car
you want to try to get all your angle with the bar as low as you can get it on both the pinion and frame to keep the roll center low.

posted October 27, 2003 01:06 PM
I guess I should have told you, we went up in 100 pound increments to get to the 1100 spring. once we hit that point the diving was redeuced to a minimum. I think what the short bar did was give me so much lr bit that it was the ultimate dragsterdown the chute, but dragsters dont corner. It was almost like when I turned the to the left it would ride up on the shorty and give the left rear to much bite, then I would have to back off the throttle some to corner. What I mean is I could not get into the throttle as much as I could have because of the left rear bite. I was wondering if adding more right rear would help.

Car scales at:
lf 570 rf465
lr660 rr630

This is with 15gal of fuel after the feature.

posted October 27, 2003 05:38 PM
it aint uncommon to run RR weight as much as 50 lbs VS. LR weight.

posted October 28, 2003 11:10 AM
its not uncommon but not used very much unless something else is wrong with the car, its used as a crutch...
what are your wheel offsets??
when you enter the turn, are you on the gas, off th egas, feathering it, are you setting it hard, easy... give us as much info as you can. what are your bar angles also...
what are you running for a gear and what is the track size...
you dont want to raise the bar up in the air, it will make the car roll over more the nessecary... or however you spell it lol... keep it low on the frame and low on the pinion keeping your angle though. it will give the car bite and keep it free.
if you do try running right rear opposed to left rear, your going to get in good but get ate coming off the corners.
also, what are your camber, and castor settings, stagger

posted October 28, 2003 01:36 PM
I am running the imca tire so stagger is tough to get. Amazingly the stiffer right front helps lessen the throttle push, it feels like it makes the rf tire contact the track surface better, where the softer spring seems to absorb the wieght transfer. The car worked good before I put the shorty on, so I dont think there is anything wrong with something else. What I am wondering is by swicthing to the shorty bar did anyone have to make other changes? The shorty is great coming off the corners but I just need to loosen the rear up coming into the corners on decel, if I use more rear brake it loosens it into a slide and I have to catch the rear with the throttle. Was at a USMTS show and them guys could just turn around the corners not loosing any momentom. Almost as if there rear wasnt locked. I noticed that about 80% of the USMTS drivers were using this short bar. I talked to a couple drivers and they said they never had to increase the right front spring.(that doesnt mean I was getting a honest answer though). 2nd2none, did your car get tight when you went to this bar and if so what did you do to correct it.

posted October 28, 2003 09:13 PM
Did you ever increase the rr spring? Does the track have bite or is it slick. With a metric clip the 1100 pnd is not way out there if you are still getting travel on the rf. What you are getting is the car is not unloading enough in the corner and i would guess when you get in the gas it adds to much steer to soon but if you could get in the gas real hard it would be fine. I would try to get the car to set better... what kind of pullbar or lift arm are you using?

posted November 02, 2003 09:29 AM
I tried the shorty in front of the rear end and my only recommendation is go to the J-bar!!! That shorty made my three link WAY to tight, almost uncontrolable at about mid turn through corner exit.

posted November 04, 2003 01:45 AM
you may not want to try this but a guy up here runs one side staked leafs and the other mono with an coilover eleminator he finished 1st in points and finished in the top 75 of the ump national points just a thought.

posted November 04, 2003 04:46 PM
herndon,I think your right, my car acts the same way! Too much force on left rear with shorty, I think moving the bar over to right 10 to 12 inches on rear will help loosen. The other cars that I have seen with short bar have all been 4bar cars, thus giving them more rear steer. Has anyone ever tried a long Jbar going to within 10 inches of right rear tire? Would be like having long bar behind rearend but moving it to around 8inches in front of rearend. On tacky tracks I would think that during acel that it would really plant the right rear tire. Then put the shorter Jbar on next to pinion for slick track to give the left rear a little more bit.