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Author Topic:   carb comparison
dirtbuster
Member
posted September 29, 2003 01:18 PM
Ok not looking for reccomendations here just looking for comparisons. Currently running a alky Demon and thinking about switching to gas. I am looking for info on how other carbs compare to the demon good or bad, especially driveability, and control. Looking at carbs such as KP's outlaw series, Braswell, Baker, C&S, etc...

Any and all help is appreciated.

KPLugnut
Member
posted September 29, 2003 01:40 PM
Just because I'm wondering....but why are you thinking of going BACK to gas when alky is allowed?

Just wondering...

KP

dirtbuster
Member
posted September 29, 2003 02:01 PM
Basically because the track we run on is usually dry slick 95% of the time. 50% of that time we have way too much motor and the other 50% there are a ton of cautions and we burn a lot of fuel. By going to gas we can run the car lighter and not worry about being underweight, plus maybe take away a little power, mostly midrange, and try to make it a little easier to hook up and drive. Engine builder thinks this Demon is too responsive and makes it hard to control, maybe..maybe not.
Wont necessarily run gas 100% but at least have the option of changing back and forth if we need too.



jlfastride
Member
posted September 29, 2003 04:43 PM
im am looking for info on sending my carb to someone like brasswell. it's a holley pro series 750 with major driveability problems. i bought it new about 3 years ago and don't want to swallow the cost of another new carb. any info as far cost and phone # is appreciated. also any others that have done something similiar to this. thank you jl


dirtbuster
Member
posted September 29, 2003 06:37 PM
jlfastride,
What kind of problems have you had with you holley carb. I assum this is the off the shelf holleyhp.. gas or alky?


ctfarm
Member
posted September 29, 2003 07:15 PM
BG sells the conversion kit to switch your carb to gas.It's much cheaper than a new carb.We converted ours from gas to alky,it works great.The kit is easy to install.



KPLugnut
Member
posted September 29, 2003 08:58 PM
Refresh and/or conversion jobs like that are also right up our alley, and if you do the math and check prices, I think you'll find the decision even easier to make.

Just curious, but does that conversion "kit" include stainless steel butterflies, SS shaft screws, special alcohol boosters (not to mention the high dollar tooling to install them properly), Teflon shaft bushings, and completely machined special purpose metering blocks, too?
Or is it just the big needle/seats, big jets, squirters and pump kit?

I don't mean to imply that kit won't work, it just seems that they can't possibly cover all bases to completely transform a carb fully to an alcohol-ready unit.

Just some thoughts.


tilley88
Member
posted September 30, 2003 01:21 AM
I use a vacuum secondary Holley HP 750 on both my 383 and 358, IMCA mod and Super street Camaro. On dry slick it can't be touched, **** near unbeatable on tacky, too. All I did was set air/fuel and float level. Left jets and power valve alone. Out of the box this is one bad Gas carb! KP can probably beat it, but barely!


ctfarm
Member
posted September 30, 2003 07:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by KPLugnut:
Refresh and/or conversion jobs like that are also right up our alley, and if you do the math and check prices, I think you'll find the decision even easier to make.

Just curious, but does that conversion "kit" include stainless steel butterflies, SS shaft screws, special alcohol boosters (not to mention the high dollar tooling to install them properly), Teflon shaft bushings, and completely machined special purpose metering blocks, too?
Or is it just the big needle/seats, big jets, squirters and pump kit?

I don't mean to imply that kit won't work, it just seems that they can't possibly cover all bases to completely transform a carb fully to an alcohol-ready unit.

Just some thoughts.


The kit comes with metering blocks,airbleeds,boosters,gaskets, pump squirters,pumps,needles and seats.We have the Race Demon,the boosters have a special srcew to hold them in.This carb was only year old ,the baseplate was in great shape.BG designed it to be easily converted


KPLugnut
Member
posted September 30, 2003 08:31 AM
OK, that is the difference, then, because I misunderstood and was thinking BG was selling this kit for ANY Holley carb conversion.
Yes, it's true, their boosters have threaded ends so as not to need special tooling to install.
And since they are selling complete metering blocks as well, they have most of the bases covered.

As the saying goes, "ya learn somethin' new every day"... :-)

KP

dirtbuster
Member
posted September 30, 2003 09:19 AM
I know the demon can be changed and that is one option. But we also thought about switching to a different carb altogether to see if it works better, or easier to drive. Dont get me wrong i love this demon carb and i think it works great but always wondering what else is out there.


KPLugnut
Member
posted September 30, 2003 09:25 AM
One thing you might want to look into is a cam change to get rid of that sudden burst of midrange power. It seems that might be more of your issue than in the carb dept. There are many many cams out there that have broad, flat torque curves and don't come on like and explosion and it sounds like that's what you're battling more of.
Just a thought, anyway.
Give Charles at Camcraft a call and he'll sit and chat a while with you about that concept.
We've seen many a driver who's driving style was suited to that sudden "burst" of power, yet many others feel like fish outta water with an engine with that sort of personality.

Hope that helps,
KP

[This message has been edited by KPLugnut (edited September 30, 2003).]

dirtbuster
Member
posted September 30, 2003 11:17 AM
KP
A cam change is something we have considered also. This same motor we ran last year and it worked well. Then over the winter during freshen up we had some head work done to help it breathe a little. So that might not have helped any. Then the first night out this year we rolled the car and had to put a new one together so prob have not had it set up as well either. Things just havent gone well for us. On tacky motor is great, but on slick just too much torque. More duration on the cam would prob help soften it a little but then on a night its tacky and need that torque back its tough to change back unlike a carb and fuel.
I dont know..just trying to get ideas.


jlfastride
Member
posted October 02, 2003 10:49 AM
mine is alky, it's always had a off idle bog , also when i bought it and cut the holley box seal the primary shaft was bent and twisted badly. after serveral calls i was told to either send it back for inspection and let them decide if they would do anything about it or not. i ended up buying a 1;1 shaft kit . and installing it myself. it's also got a lot of cruise blubber but cleans out at rpm. runs strong just not very drivable. tia jl


KPLugnut
Member
posted October 02, 2003 11:03 AM
We'd be glad to fix the carb for you, jlfastride. Send me an email sometime at kineticperformance@thedirtforum.com or feel free to call the shop in the evening after 5pm any nite or on weekends and we'll talk.

Dayton Umholtz, co-owner
Kinetic Performance


dirtywrench13
Member
posted October 05, 2003 08:08 AM
i would try a davinci carb before i did anything to the carb you already have.he can hook you up with just the right equipment to do anything you want.


CUSTOMPERFORMANCE
Member
posted October 05, 2003 10:24 AM
I am very pleased with my reworked carb by KP. I had an old C@S and sold it and bought a Holley Hp 750 and while it worked ok I had it reworked by KP last year and it is a much more drivable carb and I picked up some more horsepower with it to boot. I had the off idle bog and some other issues with it.


Wauge28
Member
posted October 07, 2003 02:56 PM
My motor builder is always trying to talk me into going to gas because it make MORE HP. He says it is more responsive. Your reason to switch for the fuel burn off is great. It seems like the advantages of ALKY out weight GAS mainly because of over heating issues. If you run a high HP motor, it is usually tough to keep them cool on gas.


jlfastride
Member
posted October 07, 2003 09:52 PM
kp ok this is not to ball bust , but to satisfy my curiosity. any idea what kind of $ im looking at? tia jl


KPLugnut
Member
posted October 08, 2003 08:57 AM
No problem, jl. To properly freshen, blueprint to our specs, and completely fix your alky 4bbl would run $150. A basic refresh job for returning customers that already have our products is half that much.
Plus shipping of course.
the way we price things, I usually work with each racer individually, and fluctuate the price around accordingly, since there are so many variables when taking in a carb that was previously done by someone else, etc.

Hope that helps, and let us know how we can improve your racing.

KP