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Author Topic:   engine rules for '04
dirtbandit
Member
posted August 28, 2003 04:10 PM
4 CYLS ????


Mudrat454
Member
posted August 29, 2003 12:09 AM
I thought that it came out with the last years rules saying that they would be illegal in 04. I do not run IMCA but I thought that is what I read on here or somewhere on the net.


Fury3xxx
Member
posted August 29, 2003 05:28 AM
the way i understand it is you can still run rollers this year but for next season they are outlawed.

Face it the claim rule doesnt work. They need to set some rules and start teching cars or put in a protest rule instead of the claim.

uforacing51
Member
posted August 29, 2003 01:46 PM
You know, most cars can be had for around 4 to 5 grand for a rolling chassies and some spare parts. I think the most expensive part of racing is the motor and maybe the trailer. But, the trailer is kind of a nessassary item. I don't know how long IMCA and I might as well say it, WISSOTA, can expect us to keep building $20,000 cars to win 250 to 300 bucks. I had read at one time that there was a thought to building a spec engine at a few shops and that is where you got your engine, the motor would be sealed and you would not be able to tear it down unless you destroyed a head bolt that could only be purchased at a chevy dealership. If they actually did this I could see the cost of fielding one of these cars coming down some. But as it stands, alot of people will have to quit the sport soon because of the cost... that is too bad because its fun and a clean way to spend friday and saturday night.
Many years ago the pendulum swung the other way and it looked like mods and late mods would become a thing of the past, now it appears to have swung the other way, IMCA and WISSOTA take note, the gravy train could be grinding to a halt!!!

[This message has been edited by uforacing51 (edited August 29, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by uforacing51 (edited August 29, 2003).]

boas51
Member
posted August 30, 2003 05:14 PM
Roller's will be outlawed for 04'.....

I won't miss it a bit.

tilley88
Member
posted September 01, 2003 11:36 PM
Quick change rear-ends versus roller cams versus sportmod. I'm gonna try to be the official liscenser of IMCA decals, no one else, think that will fly nationwide? I'm gonna sell my own rules online. I'm gonna re-name my sanctioning body G.R.E.E.D.. Man, I'm gonna retire and let all you dummies fight over rules and money, and let those who follow behind me get richer because of corporate sponsorships and lobbyists whose only agenda is to make money and spearhead movements to outlaw ozone-killing, gas swilling, dinosaurs that need to be crushed and sent to Japan for recycling. Can you say I.M.K.A.? Is this where racing is headed?

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited September 02, 2003).]

Fury3xxx
Member
posted September 02, 2003 08:38 AM
Sorry, Jammin. Lettin off a little steam.....


norightturn
Member
posted September 02, 2003 09:21 AM
I have personally never run a roller engine but I have thought about it just as a cost savings. Although one benifit is more aggresive cam profiles, another would be the ability to re-use the valve train components. Maybe a valve lift rule would be an idea?


HEAVY DUTY
Member
posted September 02, 2003 09:57 PM
Our track had a claim rule for a while that involved an engine swap. Anyone who finished the A-main could claim one of the top 4 cars. the wrecker pulled both engines and they were swapped.


2nd2none
Member
posted September 04, 2003 11:58 AM
Where we race it takes the best of the best equipment and a $10,000 motor in a modified to run up front. $500 to win, $75 to start the weekly shows, we have on average 50 cars every week showing up and the 20 A features cars are all high $$$ stuff. It's not an IMCA track, nor is it IMCA tires, but the cost is way out of hand. To run upfront you have to have the stuff, if you cant afford it goto a class that you can afford or keep enjoying running in the back. All the gripping about how the mod class has gotten out of hand is BS. The whole dirt racing scene is out of hand, but there aint nothing that is going to be done about it and it'll just keep growing. I moved up to latemodels for a couple reasons, $2000 to win $250 to start the A. We usually only have 20-25 cars so there is only an A feature. The latemodel tires cost $10 more than the mod tires, and an average LM motor is about $5000 more than a mod motor and not every latemodel out there has them 800hp motors, only about half the field does, so that puts the all steel motors 10th on back, how many tracks can you show up to and walk home with $250 minimum.

[This message has been edited by 2nd2none (edited September 04, 2003).]

Fury3xxx
Member
posted September 04, 2003 02:06 PM
I fail to see how "allowing the QC will ruin the modified class".

We have had them allowed for 8 years here in FL. About 35% of the cars have them.
I don't.
We also allow coil overs. About 50% of the cars run them.
I don't.

For people that race one track mostly (like me) a 9" is a good deal. If I traveled more, and needed to change gears often, a QC would be a great help - but not a performance advantage.

Rules don't stop people from spending money. Go ahead, ban the rollers. The people with money can still outspend you in plenty of other areas. Beating the teams that spend three times as much as I do on engines has always put a smile on my face.

norightturn
Member
posted September 07, 2003 02:37 PM
I think I.M.C.A should do away with the claimer rule. I don't know of anybody that can build a motor that will last for more than one race for $500. A good $1500 motor runs good and if taken care of will last most of the season. I have run with people all year who have motors between 20 and 30 grand and i have never felt under powered. I think it has more to do with handling and driving than motor. Besides, those with big motors get their share when the track gets slick.


66jj
Member
posted September 19, 2003 06:10 PM
the top 5 mod motors at boone auctioned of brought

6100
6100
5800
5700
5000
at least thats close to what i remember

stock car 3700

hobby 1250



racer17j
Member
posted September 19, 2003 07:22 PM
51 in those sport mods you can't run if you have ran anything higher then a hobby i think i know they started out as you couldn't have raced anything in imca to begin with but anyway those are just as exspencive as the regular mod to get started and race for 250 that makes sence what they need to do is put those spec heads they came out with for the sport mods on the regular mods and let the sports run production heads and a 4412 carb instead of a spec head,intake,and carb worked in late models but there is a big difference between a late model and a guy that want to run a limited mod one nite a week


fastow
Member
posted September 20, 2003 01:39 AM
I'm with you Fastow,everyone is scared that the guy they claim will be pooched and take them out for revenge (there are a few crazies like that out there) then your at least putting on a new clip or worse. Sure, he may get barred. But the damage is done. You are very right though, if the claim was utilized, cost would go down.

[This message has been edited by jdj9410 (edited September 20, 2003).]

racer17j
Member
posted September 20, 2003 02:50 PM
claiming doesn't do what it's suposed to around here guys are still pumping a **** load of money in motors and losing them every week


madmodshoe
Member
posted September 21, 2003 12:47 AM
more money, more speed. Thats the final conclusion. The days of winning and running up front with junk are over. The parts industry hasn't helped either. They fooled many racers into believing that they need a $1200.00 carb, or a $600.00 super extra lightweight titainium 3rd member. It still takes talant drive a racecar, but money has closed the gap ALOT!
The infusion of money has also created a whole lot of racers who have no technical skills what-so-ever. It used to be that you had to make everything from scratch for your chassis. Now you buy it. It takes absolutely no thought process at all to bolt a part onto a car. Creativeness and saavy can only get you so far nowadays.


HarrisMod#30
Member
posted September 21, 2003 01:01 AM
If you have it... spend it. I heard a local racer saying he spend almost 50 grand this year. and that is someone who races at maybe three or four tracks all year. No sense in complaining about what the guy next to you has, I have a hard enough time taking care of my own stuff. Roller motors out for 2004. so now I guess we will be pulling valve covers or intakes in tech.


Racer111
Member
posted September 22, 2003 08:18 PM
IMCA WHAT A JOKE !!!!


Racer X
Member
posted September 22, 2003 08:42 PM
I just got an e-mail from IMCA - roller cams will be illegal in 2004.


Wallydog9g
Member
posted October 04, 2003 10:29 PM
you wanna know what the track champion at our track ran for a motor
and im not kidding...
stock reconditioned rods
hyperutectic pistons
a set of dart 200 cc angle plug heads
gm crank
victor jr intake
cheap set of roller rockers
midwest motorsports cam
DUI ignition


so those of you that thinks it takes a lot of money to win are wrong...
it takes the complete combination... yes money helps but my driver ran a 2 link car against a lot of 4 bar cars and did really well, and most of the time he was faster... the motor was no big hog, but if you have the chassis to take hp, then give it to it. the 4 bar cars need motor because of the bit they make.... if you want to race imca build a motor like i described... it will hurt to lose one but not as much as losing a motor with all the goodies...


lucky13
Member
posted October 05, 2003 04:24 PM
I only spent a small amount for my motor this year and I thought it ran OK. I had two second place finishs with it and should have had more had I gotten the car sorted out sooner. I just feel that the cost of getting into and being competitive has gotten out of hand. I don't think I am complaining about the guy next to me, I am just pointing out how expensive it is to race one of these cars. I most likely will drop back two classes to Street stock. I have been racing for 25 years and when I started (at 14) it was about $1500 to have a good car. If you had more money into your car it was usually in paint and lettering or engine. Back then we painted everything on the car. (No Graphics) I added a itemized list of what I spent this year, not that its meant to show off or embarrass anyone. its just to show how much you can put into one of these cars.
Purchase of the car…$4000 included extra front and rear end parts.

Purchase of tires and wheels….$1300.
5 wheels and 7 tires.

Power steering unit….$300

Steering components…$200

Drive Line…. $300

Gears (two sets)….$1200

Shocks,Springs and extras for tuning…$1000

Intercomp scales (supporting WISSOTA sponsor)…$1100
Seat…$175

Tranny(used)….$1100

Radiator, pulleys, hoses, fuel delivery system, fittings, fuel return, lines, wires and everything that makes the motor go….$800

Body panels….$500

Battery and cables….$180

Rub rails….$100

Carb….$800 (used)

MOTOR…..$1800

Money spent to keep car running during season…..$4000

Total……….$18,855

[This message has been edited by uforacing51 (edited October 06, 2003).]

Wauge28
Member
posted October 07, 2003 02:12 PM
Wow...you guys that complain about IMCA, you should try UMP. I have raced UMP tracks all summer and went to my first IMCA track this weekend. You are all wasting time debating over motors and cams and...what ever. The tire (un-doctored) is the true equalizer. Who cares if the darn thing is blown or injected? The tires will only hold so much. Consider yourelves that race IMCA lucky. I have lost 4 motors this year and 6 last year to heavy, fast tracks with Hoosiers-D. 421 roller motors with 600 plus HP. If you want to talk about a waste of money and a sport becoming "crazy expensive" lose the IMCA tire...you will regret it. Trust me.


imca77
Member
posted October 11, 2003 07:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dirtbandit:
I had heard that roller motors are going to illegal in '04 in imca. Does anyone know it that is true??

-Dirtbandit




imca77
Member
posted October 11, 2003 08:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dirtbandit:
I had heard that roller motors are going to illegal in '04 in imca. Does anyone know it that is true??

-Dirtbandit



sorry about the previous reply,new to this,the big dollar motors as far as i can see dont make that much differnce.my brother builds my motors with used parts from race flea markets/sale ads what ever and i can usually finish between 5th-10th any time we run weather on dirt/pavement.my car is older that we built in 1994,3 link rear w/metric frt end,and heavy(2650 w driver)we just make the car work.being from new york,we have seen some really big changes in the dirt mods/sportman cars from this area.if not for imca or that type of race car,i would not be racing as we could not afford it.our motors run an average of $750.00 per motor and the first one is still going in my buddies street stock with no problems,.030 327 w/gm parts and a decent set of heads total price was $500.00 when it was built and no major rebuilds.al long as there are sanctioning bodies you are going to have some people happy and some people not.imca could be a lot worse that what you have,i agree the should take a look at some of there rules,but as i said it could be worse.


T/10
Member
posted October 12, 2003 11:10 PM
Thru the grapevine from a reliable source that there is tc so small and so well hidden, to check for it you would have to strip the cars down to a bare frame. Imca and other sanctioning bodies know its out there being used but how to enforce not having it and tech for it is the issue. Time manpower etc. Most racers dont use it but after watching mod races for a long time over the years it has become obvious to me when it might be used, when a new driver verses a well known champion driver is very exceptional smooth lap after lap and winnning all over the place.


T/10
Member
posted October 13, 2003 06:03 PM
Restrictor Plates !!!!!!!!!!