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Author Topic:   IMCA vs TRACTION CONTROL!!!!!!!!!
demonalchohol
Member
posted July 08, 2003 11:54 AM
I HAVE HEARD THAT THERE WILL BE SOME RULES IMPLEMENTED FOR THE PROBLEM OF TC BY 2004. HAS ANYONE ELSE HEARD THIS?


lucky13
Member
posted July 08, 2003 12:36 PM
i heard hei's only also, but it either be a spec one or a swap rule on it or the module.


racinrich66
Member
posted July 08, 2003 03:54 PM
I think MSD is building a wave scrambler that will or can identify TC. I need to find that article.


DEEDDUDE
Member
posted July 08, 2003 05:31 PM
Who makes traction control for the HEI?


racerwilson
Member
posted July 08, 2003 08:27 PM
Formula one is already full of electronics and computers that's why they have a tough time with TC. Any TC that would fit in an HEI module would have such a minute effect it would make no difference. The ones you see that fit in the MSD box don't do near as much as you would think. None of them make great winning drivers out of bad drivers.


HRT187
Member
posted July 09, 2003 06:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by superdave:
Formula one is already full of electronics and computers that's why they have a tough time with TC. Any TC that would fit in an HEI module would have such a minute effect it would make no difference. The ones you see that fit in the MSD box don't do near as much as you would think. None of them make great winning drivers out of bad drivers.


The chip that runs your street car's entire computer would probably fit on a chip that size.


lucky13
Member
posted July 09, 2003 02:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by lucky13:
Also there is a new setup about the size of a 9 volt battery that is self powered and contained and uses an aligator clip hooked to one wire to operate. What will they do with this? Search the drivers when they get out of the car?


Trans Am does, so the drivers throw them out the window on the cool down lap.


lucky13
Member
posted July 10, 2003 07:12 AM
TC is around in the UMP cars as well. We see it every weekend.


demonalchohol
Member
posted July 10, 2003 11:52 AM
why dont imca have msd, who is a sponsor, to make a timing sensor that goes in the distributor and would indicate when the timing has changed.then you dont have to find the actual tc unit just chunk em when their timing has changed. of coarse it would have to work above someones curve kit.

[This message has been edited by demonalchohol (edited July 10, 2003).]

superdave
Member
posted July 10, 2003 02:11 PM
The chip may be small but it takes more hardware than that to make it work.

Lets just swap back to points and magneto?

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Superdave
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devil wrench
Member
posted July 10, 2003 03:03 PM
Davis makes a unit for a Magneto, too.

It would be tough to do with a dual-point.

devil wrench
Member
posted July 10, 2003 03:05 PM
Maybe we should all go to TransAm races and catch the units on the last lap...can't beat free parts!!!


outlawstock17
Member
posted July 10, 2003 04:37 PM
lol....i can see it now....the road course lined with spectators holding up signs....."throw the TC at me!".


tdevans
Member
posted July 12, 2003 11:40 PM
These things can be hidden anywhere, even in the tachometer.

Personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal. There's not that much of an advantage over a good driver and for the money I can buy a lot better things. **** I spend too much money trying to build good engines, why would I want to cut my power? I think it'd take all the fun out of it.

dirtywrench13
Member
posted July 15, 2003 11:05 PM
hate to say it guys but imca is talkin about locker rear ends , not rev limiters!lol,read the rule books guys!!!!


dirtywrench13
Member
posted July 15, 2003 11:30 PM
a timing sensor will only work in cars that dont have a curve in the distributor. most of the guys we race with,including us,use a lock plate. there would have to be way too many expensive pieces to put on each car to catch a change.just a piece in the distributor in an hei would tell you the timing changed every time you were on the gas because dwell in an hei is never 30*all the time anyway,even the high end msd's change all the time , just not as radical. take your 1980 something chevy work truck to the shop and hook up a dwell meter , run it through all the rpm bands you want,or dare. you'll see for yourself. dwell affects timing , but timing doesn't affect dwell.you'd have to have wheel speed sensors and a computer of some sort to run it all and make it work the way your talking .way too spendy for even the guys with really deep pockets!were talkin thousands of dollars for 2-3-4-500 dollar purse?i dont buy it.not in central iowa anyway.not that i dont believe you but beeing from an automotive background working with several racers around here and i havent seen it ,not yet.but im sure its comming sooner than i realize!


HRT187
Member
posted July 16, 2003 04:45 PM
They don't use wheel speed sensors anymore:

Quoting Lucky13: "Or the ETC can closely monitor a tachometer signal via a direct connection or an inductive pickup mechanism like that used on an ignition timing light.
Once tire slip is detected, electronic methods are used to reduce/degrade the engine power to the wheels. Up to a max of about 15 percent of an engine’s horsepower can be reduced with minimal indication it is being done. Start to degrade more than that percentage and telltale indicators like sound (engine note changes), temperature of the exhaust (increases), or fire coming out the exhaust pipes (unburned fuel) begin to show up. A common method of degrading engine performance with ETC these days is by retarding the ignition timing—somewhere a distributor signal wire that triggers an ignition control to fire has to be tapped and the signal delayed. Sanctioning bodies are counting on finding or restricting that tap-in point, and ETC makers are just as determined to circumvent any barriers."

That's how they work nowadays. d/dx V(s)= a block learn rate like your street car learns fuel curves, anything over that rate of engine speed change and power is cut.

demonalchohol
Member
posted July 17, 2003 12:08 PM
what about a spec distributor??????????


racerwilson
Member
posted July 17, 2003 09:32 PM
does the tc units have to have a tach to work?????????


lucky13
Member
posted July 22, 2003 11:45 AM
how does it work on magnetos? i saw on their website where they are making it for a mag


demonalchohol
Member
posted July 23, 2003 06:42 AM
A GUY TOLD ME LAST NIGHT THAT HE CALLED ABOUT THE POINT STYLE TC THAT DAVIS IS ADVERTISING ON THEIR WEB SITE AND THEY WOULDNT TELL HIM WHEN IT WOULD BE AVAILABLE NOR TELL HIM HOW HARD IT WOULD BE TO DETECT. SO HE GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT HE ACTUALLY DONT HAVE A POINTS STYLE ETC.


lucky13
Member
posted October 26, 2003 07:22 PM
A few thoughts: If you can't find it in tech inspection you shouldn't have a rule against it.


SLEEPY GOMEZ
Member
posted October 26, 2003 09:11 PM
Now, If there was a really cheap TC system, say less than a $100 it might become legal. Somebody build this thing - wheel sensors, simple electronics,($5 digital Walmart bike speedos?) attached to lights on dash. 5% slip = one light, 10% slip = two lights etc. This keeps the driver skill element involved. As the drivers learns the skill it would work about as good as the 20K unit. BUILD IT AND LET ME KNOW. If it works I can get it in the magazine.
sleepy.gomez@primedia.com SLEEPY


superdave
Member
posted October 26, 2003 09:27 PM
How about the driver learns to use the pedals to control the car. You know, too much gas spins the tires. To much brake spins the car.


lucky13
Member
posted October 27, 2003 07:50 PM
I bet a guy could use a vacuum secondary carb and control the vacuum line to the secondary somehow....hhmmmm. Steering wheel mounted electric vacuum shut-off valve? Pinch the hose with your foot? String the hose into your helmet and suck like **** to open the throttle blades when you want...hmmm. LOL!

Would a manual shut off valve would slow the vacuum signal down enough to keep the secondaries closed a second longer?

[This message has been edited by lucky13 (edited October 28, 2003).]

norightturn
Member
posted October 28, 2003 07:03 AM
You could take and run a mechanical linkage from the throttle arm on the carb down to a lever connected to a linkage running into the cockpit connected to a pedal that you control with your right foot. For more power to the rear wheels you push it down to reduce wheelspin you let up on the pedal. I know its a shot in the dark, but if you learn how to control power with that pedal and keep the tires hooked up that way, just think how fast you would be. It wouldnt cost near as much as traction control either.


novajohnb
Member
posted October 28, 2003 10:01 AM
Why not driver adjustable timing. Run a bell-crank linkage from distributor body to slide handle in cockpit.

Think Model T's and Harleys -you adjust timing to start it- then to run. Take a few degrees of timing out of the engine and you kill alot of tire spin.

Would this be legal? Driver (manualy) adjustable engine timing.

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