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Author Topic:   ackerman?
racing33A
Member
posted March 08, 2004 05:20 AM
I was told that you could gain ackerman by bending and moving the left front steering arm.My question is...is this true and if so which way do you bend it and how much.This is a street stock car with a stock stylefront suspension.
racing33A


c21
Member
posted March 08, 2004 09:16 AM
How did you bend it?
Did you use some heat, or just muscle, or a hammer.
What is the best way to bend it.

After bent how did you adjust the tie rods, because the stuff I read said to keep them the same length.
Just wondering if you did keep them equal, or if the left side was just extended a little.


c21
Member
posted March 09, 2004 09:16 AM
Bend?... Well, if you bend the arm up what have you done?


racer17j
Member
posted March 14, 2004 11:16 PM
good ?elmo


SLEEPY GOMEZ
Member
posted March 15, 2004 09:29 AM
To change Ackermann:
On a front steer car bend the steering arm out toward the wheel to add Ackermann. On a rear steer car bend the steering arm in toward the center of the car to add Ackermann.
Doing this changes the Ackermann effect because as the wheels are steered the angles of the steering arms change in relation to each other.
The Ackermann effect on a dirt car is negligeble. Under some conditions you might even want to reduce the factory Ackermann settings.
Any time steering points or suspension points are moved bump steer should be rechecked. Also, don't forget to reset the toe.
Bending steering arms can be done cold if you are strong enough or heated with a torch and cooled slowly.
SLEEPY


c21
Member
posted March 15, 2004 10:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by UNVRNO:
Bending a steering arm doesnt change ackerman. If your toe is at zero and you bend the arm, then reset your toe your still exactly where you started....


toe out is allready giving you the desired ackerman. the left front is turned more than the rf.

BUT IF YOU WANT MORE YOU NEED TO LENGHTHEN OR SHORTEN ONE STEERING ARM, USUALLY ITS DONE BY SHORTENING THE LEFT. YOU CAN REDRILL THE TIE ROD HOLE AND OFFSET IT WITH A SPACER, OR BUSHING.



bending a steering arm DOES change ackermann .... it dynamically changes the effective steering arm lenght relative to the draglink. Read ANY book on race car suspension or, come to my shop and check it out on the turnplates.

toe-out DOES NOT give a desired ackermann, it can however give the desired toe-out at a specific steering angle.... much like correct ackermann.

ackermann IS dynamic toe .... (and therefore can result in the desired toe .... assuming one knows what that is).

shortening a steering arm does effectively change ackermann ..... however it is rarely done on dirt cars because an increse in ackermann turning left (using this method) becomes a decrease turning right (counter-steering). Asphalt cars rarely counter-steer so this is a mod for asphalt only.

as I stated before, (and Sleepy mentioned as well) this mod is not neccesarily worth messing with.

c21



c21
Member
posted March 15, 2004 10:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Elmo:
Bend?... Well, if you bend the arm up what have you done?


bending an arm up will mostly (nearly exclusively) effect bump-steer.

more to the point, on a front-steer car bending an arm up will increase toe-in in bump (compression).

c21

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