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Author Topic:   Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jammin
Administrator
posted February 14, 2004 07:29 PM
Ok, I am gonna open one wide open here....we are going to do one of these posts for each forum, one at a time......

Lets be patient and RESPECT each other's opinion on this. NO ONE IS WRONG!

What rules do you think Street Stock should have in order to keep the class affordable and have the class where it SHOULD be in cost versus payout per track?

Books are accepted on this ...we want to hit as many points on this as possible in order to give good info...never know what track promoter may be reading this...

Remember when you post on this....this is STREET STOCK..(weekly payout of 200-400$ on average)..remember those two keywords when posting on this topic.

Thanks for everyone's participation....Once we are done with this, I would expect that several people should take this to their track's and let them read what the drivers would like to see.

jam

jammin
Administrator
posted February 14, 2004 07:45 PM
Ok, I will post my thoughts....

362 CID limit
2 barrel
racing fuel
flat tappet cam
NO AFTERMARKET HEADS (keep it cheap for the low buck guy!!!!!!)
Can't dictate how much is spent on the crank, rods and pistons, but you can limit the air intake and heads with 2 barrel and head rule. This will make the low buck guys stay competitive.

No aftermarket trannies.

30 lb flywheel rule....3 or 4 speeds
torque converter with glide.........(police the direct drives)

Floater rearends ok..no performance advantage from a non-floater...

track tires(pulloffs)....10"

headers allowed

aluminum dual plane intake only (cost effective, no huge power gain over cast)

No MSD's (how many street cars do you know with msd ignitions?)

108" wheel base, no short cars (MAKE IT EVEN!)

3200 lb weight limit.

If you wanna go faster, MOVE UP!


I know this sounds alot like some of the lower classes, but this is where I think that street stock should be.

What about you?

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited February 14, 2004).]

Pickel
Member
posted February 14, 2004 08:13 PM
No late model look alikes!!!! lol I like stock appearing bodys

[This message has been edited by Pickel (edited February 14, 2004).]

outlawstock17
Member
posted February 14, 2004 08:20 PM
these rules rock....
http://www.tulspeedway.com/OutlawStockRules.htm

the rules are easy to enforce, the cars are fun to drive and as fast as our mods.

te33
Member
posted February 14, 2004 08:27 PM
360cid 9-1 comp all cast production parts no aftermaket heads or intakes claim 600 or exchange
4412 carb un touched all ignition parts must be stock or stock replacement no mds systems
no alky
stock frame 108 in min with weight jacks tube uppers ok
3000# weight rule
no direct drive or hollow converters no mini clucths must be steel fly wheel and 10.5 single disk clutch
blow proof bell housing
floaters ok
aluminum rad ok
headers ok
body can be stock or stock appearing aftermarket must use stock floor pan all the way back to the rear bumper no cutting out trunk floors must have stock fire wall stock roof,hood and deck no spoilers and no boxing of interior
8 in wheels any offset bead lock rr only
imca american racer tires can be cut in original tread pattern only no siping
quick steer ok



Hobby152003
Member
posted February 14, 2004 10:16 PM
Like it says STREET STOCK not hot rods. I think for that class it should be completly bone stock. If you want to run 9in rear in chevys or what ever it may be call it something else. Knock the windows out, put a cage in and have fun. Something to think about would put a 500 dollar claim on the hole car. But then again there is nothing stock about a stock car.


udecide66
Member
posted February 14, 2004 10:31 PM
I agree with the 350 carb...

But, the nascar pulloffs are about 25 bucks each....hard to beat their wear.....10" rims aren't going to be 5 bucks more for these tires....no real advantage other than sealing that wide tire better.....

jmo

jam

racer17j
Member
posted February 14, 2004 11:19 PM
keep in mind jam here in iowa we can't get those tires imca tires can be found pretty much anywhere
350 carbs have ruined the imca stock car at least from the spectator stand point the class is boring freight train racing any more we had a track up here that was imca got to the point that they only got 7-8 cars a nite and were only running about 1/2 sec faster then the hobby stock they dropped imca and let them go back to the 500 cfm carbs and count was up in the 20's again lots of passing and realy mix'n it up racing again like the stock cars of old back when they were the class to tough to tame any more they are the class that so f$%^&'n lame lol


BK19
Member
posted February 15, 2004 07:56 AM
350 CARB at first looked like it ruined the class but those boys have figured it out! it is all in the correct cam at Arlington Raceway they can come from the back and win they have very exciting races there 30 plus cars with a b feature every sat. night


PEDDLER
Member
posted February 15, 2004 08:26 AM
Street Stocks are as diverce as apple trees are from johnson grass. There is a push in this part of the world to start a Street Stock sanction in conjunction with the Limited Mods. Some of this is ok, but streeter are generally your grass roots racer and back yard builder.

With this said I feel after market heads are OK like the SR Torquer at approx $800.00 per pair. If you break one a replacement matched head is available by phone instead of searching wrecking yards and machine shops for a mate to the one you have.

Any rule that is made needs to not only look at cost but also durability for the piece in question. Floaters over conventional,,,durable yes ,,, cost no. Aftermarket STOCK length rods ,,, durable yes ,,, cost acceptable. Tires ,,, pull offs ,,,durable ,,, Yes ,,, Cost ,,, acceptable ,,,availability ,,, Limited. Carb ,,, 500cfm Holley ,,, Good performance out of the box ,,, cost acceptable ,,, wildy available.

These are supposed to be "STREET" stocks, not a limited late model is sheeps clothing.

turbo68
Member
posted February 15, 2004 09:55 AM
Well I tell you what guys I know what you are sayen. For a quick example of a track that does not govern the street stock or bombers like they should. We are building modifieds with stock apearing bodies. Rules say must have steel stock bodies. several guys have called the track inspector and asked if he could put aluminum body on, he says sure that will be fine. The 2004 rules say steel stock bodys, now you get to the track for the first race of the season and you see cars that literally look just like a late model. Of coarse we have no weight rule and we normally have 75 to 100 bombers show up every sat night. And of coarse the pay out to win the A main is 180.00. The problem I have is its hard to go by the rules when everyone and there brother has twisted them so much that there is no way you can win if you build your car by the rules.


Okie11m
Member
posted February 15, 2004 02:10 PM
Jammin yours sound pretty good to me. The class I was running in was unlimited in the motor department. They called it street but it was far from it. I moved down to bomber this year & it is what street should be.I agree with the pull offs. They are the best thing to happen to the dirtpoor stock drivers around here.


Donnie Ross
Member
posted February 15, 2004 04:49 PM
Around the rules are pretty open several guys are putting stock appearing bodys on clip cars as they became legal this year and streetstocks pay more than limited late models.rules are 3250 with clip car 3000 with stock floor pan and steel body mod tires only engine rules are cast block and heads one 4bbl thats pretty much it.


Eljojo
Member
posted February 15, 2004 05:26 PM
I have to agree with Turbo 68! Whatever rules you make-stick to them. Nothing gets my goat as bad as pulling my street stock several hours to a big race and seeing SLM's running as street stocks...yeah they had to add weight-right over the rear axel!
Motors-no claim! Like you all said, build a bad boy and put a two bbl on it and you are back to equal. Flat tappets are fine-I have to run against rollers every week in a class that paid $100 to win-rediculous! headers are the $ for $ cheapest hp out there-call a spec header (AutoZone specials)
Aftermarket heads-there are S/R replacements a whole lot cheaper than the humps I have. 360 max cid Performer 2101 or 2116 for Vortecs
Stock steel bodies- plastic nose and tail, floorpan firewall to firewall--- and those are stock.
Pull offs are a great idea-until someone finds a source for F-15's and the locals can only get F-45's. SO---Towell City recaps on 10" wheels Put beadlocks on your hauler too if that's where you want to spend your money! LOL
Floaters ok No coilovers Stock location shocks in front, stock suspension parts,WB shocks in rear Jack bolts back there too!
Good cages and safety stuff
30# flywheel and clutch or converter and auto


way2fast72
Member
posted February 15, 2004 07:38 PM
I think a lot of tracks have completly ruined ther street stock class. A local track around here dropped there pro stock class 2 yrs ago and allowed those guys to cap off there weight jacks and run. they had to convert to gas instead of alky,but otherwise allowed to run,needless to say, the guys that were once fast,were now mid pack or worse.forced several guys to drop down to a factory stock class to be competetive.I once ran this class and won a few, built a car to run a big race at end of season and couldnt touch them.way to much money in the class now.
I think 360 cubes max,and strictly enforced.
no aftermarcket trans,or mini clutchs.
any 4bbl carb.
no msd ign.stock point or electronic only.
aluminum intakes ok
aluminum water pumps and pulleys ok
aluminum rads ok.
no floater rears,nine inch ok.
asphault take off track tire.10 in wheels,beadlock on right rear only.
headers ok.
Just thunk they should be a little more affordable for the average working guy.
Affordable, thats funny.lol


Elmo
Member
posted February 15, 2004 07:56 PM
Jammin maybe you should have used the name Bone Stock....
You have to take a look at each individual area and come up with a set of rules that will succeed with a level playing field and high car counts. Keep the almighty dollar out of the winners circle. Enforce rules with an Iron Hand and tech everyone the same allowing no special favors at all.
When you first look at things stock parts are cheap.... not really, sometimes a deeper look is necessary. Bombers here have motors pan to carb upwards of 5 grand. Why you ask? Take some stock heads, deck them or angle mill them, bowl port, Stainless valves, racing springs, machine seats etc etc. Not to mention smoothing the runners. All of this which is being done by builders here often and passing tech. Now your looking at $800 or more for a set of heads. Now is where the aftermarket heads come in. You can purchase a nice pair of heads for $800 or even less. So now it makes sense to allow aftermarket Cast. But when you allow additonal money to be spent on aftermarket heads in machine work etc you have dropped the ball completely. This is just heads alone.
Locally, bombers are the bottom class, not Street Stocks. If you want a nice set of rules for a bomber check out T.O.B.A. rules. The Texas Outlaw Series has taken rag-tag junker racing to a new level. Street Stocks on the other hand pretty much are the modern day Sportsman, one step below a Mod or Latemodel.
My vote for Street Stock rules are previously posted. "SUPER STREETS". Don't forget the last year the GM Metric was produced, which has become the popular mainstay for local racing, was 1987 - 17 years ago. In the Northern states a rustfree body can be rather hard to comeby.
Anytime I hear someone is changing the rules to save the racer money I cringe. Usually these so-called rule changes mean just that, you have to change. The racer has to throw out what he already has and spend more money to ablige a promoter who's saving them money.
One last note,The racer is often his own worst enemy by overspending or competing in at least one class above what he can afford.


9HELBLIG
Member
posted February 16, 2004 09:20 AM
thats just it guys depending on where you are from a street stock is something different around here they are called stock cars now and are the step below mods somewhere else street stock means you drive off the street and knock the windows out put a hoop in it and go race'n.i'm a firm believer in 360 9-1 comp rules to level it out don't alow any porting of anything just like imca hobby i'm not a big fan of a claim but it sound like if alot of you guys would have a claim it would cure some of your problems we have a 225 claim in my class has been in place for 7 years now and it had realy worked good we average a claim once every other year and usually when they do it's needed there are still a couple big money motors in the class but out of 25 cars i'm willing to bet that 12 of them have stock dish top 350 or 305's with a re ring kit and just a cam i'm willing to bet thses guys with the $5000 motors will stop building them if he loses one for 10% of what he has in it. the floaters are a safty issue but doesn't have to be required if your safty is worth less then 1000 then run a stock 9 in with disc brakes because thats the only performance advantage for a floater over a stock one is the disc brakes but if you can run the discs thats not an issue any more


ratracer10
Member
posted February 19, 2004 11:04 AM
i'm with racer17. when people go to watch races, they want to see race cars,not a one way demo derby. If your on that tight of a budget run pure stocks. we are nopa and wissota sanctioned. You see alot of pro built cars and alot of home built cars, and any of them are competitive on any given night. as far as money goes there will always be someone with deaper pockets,no matter what class your in. But all the money in the world cant win races you also need knowledge and skill, that is why racing is so interesting, and that is why all of us are on the dirt forum.

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SPEND YOUR MONEY ON WOMEN,BOOZE,AND RACE CARS. THEN JUST WASTE THE REST.


DSMFANATIC
Member
posted February 20, 2004 04:18 PM
and as for a claim rule, they tried that here also. example: I ran an illegal engine two years ago out of a dakota streeter( solid cam, hogged out heads, crank lightened and knife edged) my competition knew i had a good package because i won. our claimer was $1500 which is about what i had in the engine. and the rule was if you claim it you must run it the next weekend. someone claimed me , i took the money built a fresh engine and the next weekend i protested them for 100 dollars. i got my hundred bucks back cause it was illegal(go figure) and he lost the engine, got a $1000 fine, and was banned from all nopa tracks for 3 weeks. as you can see the claim rule didn't last long, but we still have our protest rule.!!!!

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SPEND YOUR MONEY ON WOMEN,BOOZE,AND RACE CARS. THEN JUST WASTE THE REST.


o5racer
Member
posted February 23, 2004 08:18 PM
Engine claims suck! Thats the only thing from keeping me from running IMCA. $400 for my engine? Yea right. Why dont you just kick me in the junk and take it from me. At $400 it is only justified stealing.

If they had a $500 head claim rule with no aftermarket heads allowed I would run. Or at least $1000 for just the long block. But $400, Get real.

toddr46
Member
posted February 23, 2004 08:42 PM
its pretty clear street stock means dif things around the country here we call them modafied streets, for the last couple yrs most of the local tracks have been running very simular rules but this yr have changed some, we have to run a track tire hoosier dirt boss spec tire 8 in rim, holley 4412, headers, no roller cams, cast heads and stock apearing bodies. were right under the limited late models wich have just started back up around here but we have the minis and 2 other lower full size stock classes below us. I think as long as rules are enforced equaly 4 every one and that you have several dif classes from knock out the glass n runn em to somthing like the mod streets and limeted lates youll have a class 4 every one to run and enjoy and youll have a crowd fav that will keep em comin back n some of them crossin the fence to drive ect


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