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Author Topic:   Stagger for Hobby/Street Stock
hsracer58
Member
posted January 17, 2004 11:52 AM
just depends on your setup on on the front i run 4 inches on my metric but on the rear i never go over 2 1/2 tried 3 one nite and was way loose and ended up looping it. thats on tacky on a dry track i run the rear even up as possible


BiggerBill
Member
posted January 17, 2004 04:55 PM
Bill not all of us are limited to DOT tires.

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Jason Boivin
http://www.rcracing-team.com


racer17j
Member
posted January 17, 2004 09:08 PM
in webster city we can mix and match as long as we run 205 70 or 75 so on the front depending on how much stagger i want i run a 70 or 75 15 on the right and 70/14 on the left then run a 70/14 lr and 75/14 rr on heavy track and go to 70/15's on bolth rears on dry


BiggerBill
Member
posted January 18, 2004 07:31 AM
thats one thing you'll learn on here bill the rules are so different from track to track and region to region that it will boggle your mind lol


rico 08
Member
posted January 18, 2004 12:17 PM
You didn't say what car you have,metrics don't like very much staggger on dry(17j figured that out)but camaro's use more.On a dry slick track you can even try reverse stagger on a metric to tighten it coming off.


3dracer
Member
posted January 18, 2004 12:56 PM
we run goodyear short track specials.Not much difference in tire rollout.Last year I got the best results from 3/4 " stagger on the front and no more than 1.25 or less on the rear 9/16 mile high bank with long straights.


racer17j
Member
posted January 18, 2004 02:56 PM
the more stagger you put in the rear of the car the more of a loose setup you are going to have. spinning the tires doesn't realy matter what stagger you have in it if you are putting to much power down for the tires to bite they are gonna spin .spinning can be controled with right foot weight and taller tires thats why you will notice i go to taller rear tires on the dry. it's kinda like taking gear out of the car so the tires are less likley to spin coming off the corner


Wind Walker
Member
posted January 23, 2004 01:34 PM
Everyone has their own setup, and it usually depends on several factors.

However, we run on a 1/2 mile mostly dry-slick (oiled dirt), medium high banked turns, with average straight-a-ways. I've always tried to run between 1 1/2-2 inches of rear stagger with the hobby stock. Rules here allow us to run American Racer tires, along with 2-4 inch offset wheels.

All of this is depending own your over-all setup as well, including roll height, roll center location (3" left for dirt), ackerman, cross-weight percentages, & etc...

Have a great day & Safe Racing,
Wind Walker


merlinmech2
Member
posted January 24, 2004 09:09 AM
Your driving preference determins how much stagger more than the car. I run a half mile med bank that gets slick. I run 1 to 1 1/2 reverse stagger. When it gets slick you can really get off the corner on the low side. Have to watch the track though, because a lot of rev. stagger makes it harder to run the top. Every once in a while you gotta try something different. Stagger is easy to play with.


jammin
Administrator
posted January 24, 2004 09:58 AM
Here is my take guys....
Mathematically, tires on the rear of a race car that are locked together by any means, have to be staggered to go around a turn correctly... there is a mathematical formula for this...we have included this calculator in the toolbox. All you need is the measurement from one side of the track in the groove to the other as the turns begin and the the turn exits....this will give you a diameter reading... Mathematically, this is going to be the radius of the turn.....By doing this, you have just taken out one variable of your setup...which is good..... The perfect scenerio to a fast race car would be to be able to run completely even rollouts on each side and make the rear steer compensate for the stagger. This way, you would not have any scrubbed speed down the straights with a tire dragging at all...the rear suspension would take care of this all for you...Since that number is not achievable thru most suspensions, we have to run the least stagger possible and still achieve that given number to get our car around the turns correctly. With a leaf spring suspension, it is harder to get that number you are looking for through suspension. By angling the leafs in one arc or the other, you can give yourself a little and keep the stagger to a minimum. Given that, stagger also brings about wedge changes in the car....in other words, if you put a smaller tire on the left rear to get more stagger, you just took cross out of your car, which in effect will tighten the car on entry and loosen the car on exit....Same being with reverse stagger....your just basically adding wedge to the car...it may feel like your doing the car good, and you maybe getting faster, but you probably need to look into your weight distribution. If you run reverse stagger, the car down the straights will want to pull toward the wall, which you still have a situation where the stagger is there and you are dragging that right rear wheel all the way down the straights....You feel faster, which may be because of the crossweight addition, and not the stagger itself...because your just adding bite.
Most of racing is mathematic, geometry and physics...thus why Nascar teams hire engineers, because they have the aptitude to figure the mathematical relevance to each and every part of the race car to your setup and what you need for each track. Just keep this in mind guys...math doesn't lie. I know some of the tools you see sometimes around will give you approximations...but if you use that calculator in the toolbox, since we have nailed down the way to figure the banking....your going to be close enough that you won't have to worry about stagger any more...just get that measurement of the groove at your local track and measure to the center of it. Get the stagger set, leave it and work on other stuff.

Hope this helps.
jammin


[This message has been edited by jammin (edited January 24, 2004).]

merlinmech2
Member
posted January 25, 2004 10:12 AM
All good points jammin. However, we are talking about hobby cars on dirt here, not cup cars on pavement. We don't have all the adjustments available to us a cup car has. Dirt also changes much more than pavement. It's a lot easier to change a wheel at the track than make a spring change to allow for changing track conditions. It's been my experience that getting through and off the corners is the MOST important thing for good lap times and passing. Dragging the rr wheel down the straight has little effect as oppossed to dragging the lr wheel with pos stagger. My point is that changing stagger is easy to do at the track and has very noticable results.


jammin
Administrator
posted January 25, 2004 11:11 AM
Instead of changing rear stagger, you can do many, many things to increase the crossweight without messing up the stagger that should be in the car. When you do what you are doing, it is sort of a band aid for the crossweight you do not have in the car (don't take offense). The stagger in the front end is much easier to manipulate the crossweight...you can either put a bigger tire on the right front of a smaller tire on the left front....increase the air pressure in the right front and decrease air in the left front......You can put a further backspaced wheel on the left front and it will add cross...you can bring the right front wheel in and it will increase crossweight...some street stocks are allowed jacks and some not, but you can take the car to the track, put that reverse stagger on and get the weights correct in the car and bring it back to the shop and get the weights...put your correct stagger back on the car and then work the front tires/air pressures/offsets to where you need them to get that same weight with the correct stagger, and I guarantee you the car will be faster and will be easier to drive. It doesn't matter what your driving, cup car, dirt car, whatever...mathematics, physics and geometry don't change because we are racing on dirt....the numbers will because of the racing surface but the main difference is that you may not feel as big of a change when doing this because of a slicker racing surface. There are many people that do this to help their setups in the feature...but just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it correct. 1/10 of a second during a 20 lap race is 2 seconds at the end of the race....doesn't take much to make huge difference. I hope this helps some.

jammin

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited January 25, 2004).]

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