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Author Topic:   3 speed saginaw
way2fast72
Member
posted December 29, 2003 11:50 PM
Any of you guys ever personally lightened a saginaw trans? such as removing and lightening gears and such. also how involved does this procedure get? pretty much have access to any machine tools I may need, just wondering if I could save a few bucks over buying one.


00
Member
posted December 30, 2003 02:08 PM
i've done it to a SROD ford transmission.......i removed the 2nd and OD gears from the transmission and took the cluster gear to a machinist and had the corresponding gears machined off so they wouldn't be "paddling oil" and stealing HP. the cluster gear is also rotating weight so i whacked a few lbs. off there too in the process. i've used this tranny for 4 seasons and it hasn't failed me......yet!


superdave
Member
posted December 30, 2003 06:19 PM
I saw the best deal for a Saginaw tansmission again this weekend. Direct drive in high gear with one other forward and one reverse gear. In high gear the only thing turning is the input and output shaft. Very similar to the Layne idea but uses your existing clutch. The best part is it costs $650 or $550 with your core. If you run a class that requires the OEM tranny but doesn't require all the gears it's a neat idea.

It's a an all stock case and parts inside except for a few changes. Very ingenious. If you break an ear you can just swap the parts into another stock case.

The guy who makes them is Machine Parts Service. The number is 913-845-3001.


Good luck,
Superdave


Racer98
Member
posted December 31, 2003 02:06 PM
Does anyone in imca hobby stock run a munchie tranny, or must you run a saginaw?


superdave
Member
posted December 31, 2003 06:07 PM
You can run a muncie but you have to have all the gears working in IMCA. Three speed has less gears so theoretically less drag.

Good luck,
Superdave


Mikey14
Member
posted January 02, 2004 10:48 PM
superdave,

Sounds like a tongie special

best deal going for guys in our area. Don't be given all the secrets away!!

speedyd1
Member
posted January 04, 2004 04:21 PM
Guys, I`ve seen all the advertised prices and I to feel like they are maybe a little bit unreasonable,just wondering if anyone had built one themself? I know I`ve probably got 3 or 4 of the old trans laying around, was just wondering if any of you have a lightened trans have you taken it apart or pulled the side cover to see what was removed or modified, I looked up a illustration of the internal parts, think I will give it a shot.just looking for pointers thanks


15a
Member
posted January 04, 2004 07:17 PM
You'll probably have to have the gears ground off. Too hard for a lathe usually. Also, the direct drive unit is far better than any 2 speed tranny that is still turning all the gears even in high gear. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Put you tranny in high and spin the input shaft as fast as you can. The direct drive unit can be spun between your two fingers.

Good luck,
Superdave


way2fast72
Member
posted January 04, 2004 10:13 PM
so whats he doing to make the direct drive? still using the stock innards of the trans or what? we are just trying to make our cars faster as cheap as possible,still yet a lightened trans would be better than stock, right?

[This message has been edited by way2fast72 (edited January 04, 2004).]

dirtrace
unregistered
posted January 04, 2004 11:30 PM           
they describe it as machining the lw gears in the tranny but I was thinking grinding also?? If its grinding anyone with time can do that...

I have tried to call the number on the direct drive tranny, If its in a saginaw case though it will still be a little heavy??



superdave
Member
posted January 05, 2004 01:22 PM
They do manufacture a couple parts to use in the tranny but otherwise it's OEM parts. The idea was just ingenious if you ask me. I probably can't explain it if you don't have a good grasp on how a tranny works. The demo unit has the sides an top cut out so you can see how it works.

The upside is the price for what you get performance wise. The downside is it's cast iron and weighs more than a muncie. Spending money (reasonable amounts) on something that works with every engine you have is money well spent.

The down side for me is I have to have my Hobby guys run through the gears in the tech area to make sure they don't have one.


Good luck,
Superdave


15a
Member
posted January 07, 2004 11:56 AM
I got some pictures from dirtrace on this board, wanted to tell him many thanks, started lightening the trans tonight, and so far so good,was worried about being able to turn any material off of the gears,but with ceramic insert in the lathe has been a piece of cake so far, removed over 1/2 pound from second gear alone.thanks everyone for your replys.


way2fast72
Member
posted January 11, 2004 02:07 AM
Ok guys, speedway claims to be removing 13lbs of rotating weight from there lightened trans. when I started this project, I started with 14.73lbs of gear out of the trans. after removing 1st gear and sycro and counter gear. removed .58lbs from 2nd gear,removed .66lbs from reverse,removed.10lbs from reverse idler,was able to remove 1.lb from counter shaft.I was able to remove a total of 6.63lbs from the rotating assy. my question is. Is there some type of formula to figure rotating weight?or is it lb for lb?what do you think of this?


dirtrace
unregistered
posted January 11, 2004 12:50 PM           
Its really nice to see that you really did it..
From the pic I sent you is mine the same as yours now?? To me it looked like it was just minus 1st and lightened on the shaft on the side.


I dont know how they figure it but. when the trannys in 3rd everything you see in there is turning, and in neutral everything but the output shaft turn..


way2fast72
Member
posted January 11, 2004 05:25 PM
dirtrace,Is your tranny a speedway? I removed a lot more material from mine than what was pictured on yours, if I can get ahold of a digital camara I will try to post a pic,on your trans looks like 1st gear and its corresponding gear on the aux shaft was all that was gone. On mine I removed half of the thickness of 2nd reverse and their correpsponding gears on the aux shaft, I dont know how they figure they are removing 13 lbs, I dont know where they are removing it.


dirtrace
unregistered
posted January 11, 2004 07:29 PM           
thats what I was asking

Its supposed to be a speedway, but I didnt think it was. Its only got 1st lightened, not 2nd and reverse. I dont have any stock ones any more to compare it to.

Glad its worked out for you, if you sell them for 250 would you make enough to cover your time and parts if so get to work and start doing it...

way2fast72
Member
posted January 13, 2004 04:39 PM
just did it in my spare time at work,I can see where they are making the money on the machine work, takes a lot of time. just trying to save myself a buck. everyone knows how that is.


mrracing
Member
posted January 16, 2004 09:24 PM
There is a fellow in Cedar Rapids iowa that build muncie trannys that came out of older chevells that are aluminum he takes 1 2 gear out and lightens 3rd and rev. takes 25lbs rotating weight out if anybody is interested they are about 600 dollars and we are on our 3rd season and havent broken a ear or wounded it at all

------------------
you never know how fast you are going when your in the lead, until you blow the announcers hat off!!!


dirtrace
unregistered
posted January 17, 2004 11:58 AM           
You can get a muncie like that from most mod guys for 200-350. There are a lot of them sitting on floors all over from last years tranny rule change in the mods.

Roger Haden in Omaha built hundreds of them over the years and has a dozen for sale now. 350 each

dirtrace
unregistered
posted January 17, 2004 12:49 PM           
sent my pic to Bob at MR racing.

he says my lightened trans is a speedway, and that they have only removed first, and a little of off the cluster, for effect..

Pretty sad that they advertise such a lie.

way2fast72
Member
posted January 20, 2004 05:49 PM
mrracing, you have any suggestions on gear lube for this trans I lightened, was wondering if a guy could use a lighter wght lube to lose some parasitic drag and still not compromise the trans? thanks


iowa_dirt_track_girl
Member
posted January 20, 2004 06:38 PM
i would recommend using synthetic 85/140 lube it works very good and last a long time most all sprint car guys use it in there quick change rear ends


mrracing
Member
posted January 25, 2004 06:12 PM
thanks to all who answered, was nice to get your input.


dode
Member
posted February 19, 2004 01:23 PM
Can someone post up some pictures of the ligtened gears? I'm interested in doing this, and I have access to a lathe. I have to tear it down to replace some parts, so I figured this would be a good time to do it. Thanks!

John

c21
Member
posted February 19, 2004 02:13 PM
hey guys, I was able to turn the gears on a conventional lathe using ceramic inserts in the tool, true they are very hard,carbide and tool steel wont touch them.


dode
Member
posted February 24, 2004 09:25 AM
ok...I have the tooling I need. But right now I can't figure out how to get the counter gears and shaft out, or the reverse idler gear. Can anyone explain how to do this? Also we had trouble with it staying in third gear last year while out on the track. What should I be looking for to correct this problem? I didn't see anything that looked too messed up. I have it totally disassembled right now, with the exception of the 1st and 3rd gears and rear bearing off of the main shaft. Can someone help me off in the proper way to take those off?

Oh, and one last question. How exactly do you "remove" first gear. Do you just leave it out, or does it need a spacer? I would think there needs to be a spacer in there or something. Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to give this a shot.

John