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Author Topic:   powerglide torque convertor question
sjakes
Member
posted December 13, 2003 10:23 PM
Hey guys, I was wondering what exactly the new style of torque convertor is and how it works.

I mean, now I have the small 10" convertor fully operational. I've heard of the hallow ones, but now I've heard of the ones that hold fluid but there is NO rotating weight, or something on the lines of that.

Can someone please educate me on these? All I have gotten up until now are rumors of what/how people think it all works. Also you don't have to have any clutch mechanism or hoses, its all done in the valve body?

If your asking its for a Hobby Stock. I'm fully aware of what the Street Stock guys run with the torque tube etc. Its not that setup.

Thanks in advance

merlinmech2
Member
posted December 14, 2003 07:49 AM
It works the same as the street stock cars. The hollow converter is just a dummy. No fins inside so you can put fluid in it with very little resistance. In the trans. you drill a 7/64 hole in the reverse piston and the low gear bypass line. Works just like there's a working converter in it. I've been running this for 4 or 5 years now.


sjakes
Member
posted December 14, 2003 09:21 AM
How often do you change fluid?

Is there a noticable difference compared to running a working convertor?



racer17j
Member
posted December 14, 2003 10:31 AM
you change fluid just like you would before and anytime you can take rotation weight off your car it will make for quicker excelleration thats the big selling point of a glide is the lighter rotating weight


eaton89
Member
posted December 14, 2003 10:32 AM
And where can you get one and how much. Can you have a converter shop cut open a working converter and gut it.


sjakes
Member
posted December 14, 2003 11:22 AM
So if I'm undestanding this right....

The convertor holds the same amount of fluid as the working one, but all the internal workings of the convertor are gone? The fluid circulates throughout the tranny and convertor, but the convertor is basically just an external shell spinning with fluid inside of it not really rotating?

To those that have it... is it the response time the same or pretty close to that of a torque tube? I mean going from a working 10" convertor to this new style is there an obvious difference to the driver?

Thanks


I know Bushore carries the items stated above, I would almost be sure that TCI also would have something on the same lines.

I heard some pricing from Bushore are $280 for convertor; $500 for Tranny. This is for new pricing. If this isn't correct, I'm sorry for inacurate relaying of info.


[This message has been edited by sjakes (edited December 14, 2003).]

racer17j
Member
posted December 14, 2003 01:22 PM
the fluid in the converter just stays in the converter and spins around realy unless you have a rule that it has to have a certin amount like imca does you don't need any fluid in the converter and that would be even better.butr even a dummy converter is more weight then just the coupler that the upper classes run tci just came out with this setup for a t-350 too i'm thinking real hard bout getting it because we have to run a t-350 but all our tech guy does is looks at the case to see if it's a 350 never seen the guy bend down under a car


sjakes
Member
posted December 14, 2003 01:51 PM
But even if you don't put any fluid in the convertor. Won't fluid work its way into the convertor from the tranny?? So basically there will always be the fluid in the convertor, or am I not understanding the conept?

I've never actually seen the hallow convertor that doesn't hold any fluid. The way I understand it, there is NO fluid in the convertor, the fluid just stays in the tranny itself and the convertor stays empty.

On this new version I don't believe its possible to not have fluid in the convertor?

[This message has been edited by sjakes (edited December 14, 2003).]

eaton89
Member
posted December 14, 2003 02:29 PM
Do you need and additional pedal. How do you stop and start. Do you just put it in and out of gear.


sjakes
Member
posted December 14, 2003 03:25 PM
From what I've found out. You don't need anything special its all worked internally in the tranny. A bleed off valve internally or something like that.

There is no need for an external clutch mechanism whethere it be a traditional pedal or the valve type.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong about this.



malibuchevy2
Member
posted December 14, 2003 05:36 PM
the convertor has a plug at the end of it so fluid don't go in the converter


dirtracer50
Member
posted December 15, 2003 06:01 PM
Another question here. Merlinmech2 talked about drilling the reverse piston and low gear bypass line. Could you drill the low gear servo to accomplish this. I've done a couple of powerglides with the ball valve setup and never had a problem. I have a friend that wants to try running without a torque converter in a hobby class but doesn't want to give it away with a ball valve.


TCI
Member
posted December 15, 2003 08:28 PM
Basicially a dummy conveter is a converter with the fins removed from the inside along with all working pieces removed. Then a coupler (just like the one for a 2 piece setup) is welded to the front. Then the top is welded to the front and the hub part of the coupler is welded to the top. Then the hub to pilot runout is checked and it is air checked for leaks.
This is the way that TCI does them. Some other companies may do them a little different. The way our valve bodies work is by bypassing pressure in lo gear and reverse. And it is also redesigned internally to be fully manuel and to give it a consistant shift. So basicially all the driver will have to do is put the trans in gear and go.

------------------
Scott Miller
TCI Automotive, LLC
662-224-8972 ext 332
scott@tciauto.com
www.tciauto.com


sjakes
Member
posted December 15, 2003 11:05 PM
So the way TCI does it, the convertor would hold fluid? or it would not, sorry I kinda got lost...

And if the convertor does carry fluid, does the fluid interchange, or flow from the tranny to the convertor and vise versa?

Thanks for the expertise Scott, I was wondering when you were going to chime in?

Thanks again!!

TCI
Member
posted December 16, 2003 08:07 AM
Fluid doesn't circulate from the trans to the dummy converter. We install a drain plug in the front so you can put fluid in it. The reason being is because the internals are gone and there is nothing in it to make it circulate back out of the converter. The fins and other parts inside of a regular converter help to "push" the fluid back out as well as the "suction" created by the pump. Fluid does enter the coupler piece that is welded inside the shell but it doesn't go any further. So basicially all you would have to do is to put fluid in the converter thru the drain plug and it will stay there.

Scott

allan
Member
posted December 16, 2003 12:48 PM
As long as you are in lo or reverse your ok. Or if they don't check real close, put it in nuetral. With our valve body you can usually idle in gear at around 1300-1500 without any problem.
Scott


chapa73
Member
posted December 16, 2003 03:56 PM
Allen,IM pretty sure TCI tranny is really close to how my buchore worked.
I ran a dummy converter with a 182 low gear buchore.No techs around here could catch them without pulling tranny out.I could idle in high gear at that same rpm,and most often if I did it right I could take right off in low gear.We went to mini cluctches and torque tubes this year in factorys since tracks were havin gtrouble with easy techs.

TCI makes a great tranny,and so does Buchore.
TCI is alittle nice,they make it were the do it your self racer can build a internal valving powerglide at a fraction of the cost.


merlinmech2
Member
posted December 18, 2003 08:41 AM
The way mine is done you can't idle in high gear. Only low and rev. I have been checked many time and never caught. I was claimed this year and as long as you don't take the converter out, it's hard to tell. If they take it out and lift it they'll know. This year it won't matter to us because imca allows them. Just have to have 3 qts. of fluid in them. Just one more f.y.i. if you don't want to do your own rebuilds, get the tci. The way I do mine,(same as bushore) you have to rebuild them every year. I know guys getting 2 or 3 years out of tci's before rebuilds. Don't know how much you gain over a stock converter, but you can tell it when you rev the engine. Scott probably has some dyno results.


tobyone00
Member
posted December 19, 2003 01:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by allan:
ok tci can my teck man still check for this type of converter by having the motor idle in gear,or by rolling the car forward and backwards to check for stahl?

I have a 10" hollow con.for powerglide for sale(used very little)worked great.$200.00 plus shipping