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Author Topic:   Proposed rules for new Hobby Class ?
Elmo
Member
posted December 09, 2003 04:44 PM
Here is a set of new class rules. Dirt Cheap Latemodels?? Let me know what you think. Pick them apart or praise them. Just give a reason for changes please.

SUPER STREETS
Fiberglass or aluminum roof allowed. Either Plastic or aluminum nose allowed. Aluminum or steel body. No titanium allowed on car.
108" minimum wheelbase Full size Ford or GM frames only 1979 or newer, no special lincoln or Caddy frames, no 3 link or panhard bar frames allowed. All suspension parts must be stock for either frame no interchanging parts between different chassis.
Upper Control arm brackets only can be moved to adjust caster & camber, Front upper control arms may be enforced with hollow tubing on outer edges only ¾ OD or smaller, no aluminum allowed.
All bolt holes must remain in stock location on frames.
Sway bars, bushing and brackets must remain stock, no adjustable bushings.
Spindles and rotors must remain OEM stock, 5/8" studs are recommended.
Steel shocks only. Mounted in stock position. Max 4 shocks per car.
Racing springs allowed, jack bolts allowed in Rear susp only, Adjustable spring spacers allowed in front to adjust load.
Frame allowed to be shortened, must be cut and re-welded between front and rear seam only along center cradle, no angling to change pinion etc, must be straight –equal side to side like factory and pass tech inspection, elsewhere cannot be cut, bent or altered to change suspension, seam to be marked with contrasting paint for Tech.
Front frame rails can be cut off in front of steering gear box. No moving Idler or box location. Rear frame rails may be cut off behind OEM upper shock mount
Centerlink cannot be altered and must remain stock for frame used..
Rear end : Ford uses 8.8 rear, GM uses 8.5 or 7.5 rear, must use housing for frame used, lower trailing arm rear mount holes may be moved – brackets to remain OEM and factory position. Aftermarket axles allowed – no gundrilled axles, studs and Spools are allowed, no aluminum parts allowed, axles must remain one piece – No Floaters allowed.
Brakes, REAR-drums or disc brakes-MUST HAVE STEEL OR CAST IRON HAT. Adjustable proportioning valves within drivers reach while driving. Three wheels must have stock working brakes, rear disks are allowed, must use steel hat and GM metric calipers. Steel Welded to housing rear caliper mounts only.... No ford 9 inch rear ends. (Nine inch ford has not been produced by ford for over 20 years!)
All four rear trailing arms must remain stock for frame used GM for GM, Ford for Ford. May be boxed for strength, No adjustable trailing arms allowed, mount holes to be cylindricle, no sliding mount holes.
Aftermarket brake pedals are allowed .
Aftermarket gas pedal allowed
Quick steer allowed. Quick release steering wheel and collapsible steering mandatory.
45 degree engine mounts and aluminum engine plate are allowed.
Floor board and fire wall may be steel or aluminum
Main roll cage must consist of continuous hoops not less than 1½" OD x .095. All welds must be complete. No brazing or soldering. No part of main cage may extend pass motor plate to the front or pass the front edge of the rear tire. 3 door bars on driver side and 2 on passenger side. 2 bars may extend from main roll cage to points in front of or behind upper control arm. 4 bars may extend to rear frame from main cage. X-bracing is allowed. One bar rear bumper with side nerf bars is mandatory. Aftermarket front bumper allowed, must be hidden under nose. 1 nerf bar between front and rear wheels 1¼" x .063. Three driver side windshield bars minimum 5/16" OD mandatory. Door plate required. Minimum 14" driver opening.
D.O.T tires only.Maximum tire allowed Hoosier 325-60. Tires allowed tech with durometer. 8" or 10” steel wheels only, maximum 1" spacer is allowed. One Beadlock allowed on car.
Engine: 360 cu in maximum Ford, Dodge, GM – No Destroking allowed. Maximum bore 4.090. Engine bell housing flange must be mounted at least 70" forward of the centerline of the rear axle. Engine offset must be within 1" of the frame centerline. Minimum engine height is 9" from ground to front center of crank shaft. Zero deck height.
Head to Piston to Intake rule: Cast Iron heads only. Stainless Valves OK. Factory Heads - 10½ to 1 flat top pistons only for Open chamber cylinder heads 68cc’s or larger. Dual plane intake required for 67.9cc heads or smaller minimum 60cc’s. Screw in studs allowed, max 7/16. Guide plates are allowed. Maximum 2.02 intake & 1.60 exhaust valves. Requires two barrel and Cast Iron dual plane intake for these allowed heads: Chevy OEM Vortec, World Products 200cc or smaller - straight plug only on all chevy heads, Ford gt-40 or Speedway head 200cc or smaller, Mopar allowed OEM magnum head. Poly locks allowed. No triple springs allowed. Ask tech for approval Before using any head not listed. Machining of Bowl by pilot valve allowed. Valve relief not allowed in head - No removal of material allowed in combustion chamber. No porting or polishing of heads allowed, not any kind at ALL, So please don’t try to blame your machinist for an illegal set of heads. All casting marks must remain present and unmolested. Tech option to check compression by rule. $800.00 CLAIM ON HEADS !!!
466 maximum total lift. May be checked at lifter or Valve, Techs Choice. No Roller cams allowed! 1.6 maximum rocker arms. Roller tip rockers ok no rail rockers on chevy or ford. (stock type hydraulic lifters or solid only).Steel timing chain. Stock type crank and rods. No aluminum or Titanium rods allowed. A.R.P style Rod, crank and head bolts and studs are allowed. Claimer or Sportsman oil pan allowed. No dry sumps or Vacuam pumps. Maximum fluid damper is allowed – no aluminum. Cast iron or aluminum water pumps only – no electric or cam driven.
Cast Iron or Aluminum intakes allowed – aftermarket OK, no high rise intakes or space between plenum and valley pan for Factory heads. No Aftermarked Steel or billet cranks allowed, Scat Cast type OK. Balancing Ok.
Power steering pump and res. must be stock type.
Transmission: OEM transmissions only. Automatics must remain stock, torque converters optional. Optional PowerGlide on ford-mopar ok Standards - clutch & pressure plate aluminum O.E.M type ok. Full size stock steel or aluminum fly wheel only, no mini clutches, coupler not allowed on standards. Shields required on convertors and flywheels . Cars must have working forward and reverse.
One radiator allowed (may be aluminum) mounted in front of engine.
Two batteries allowed. (securely mounted to car) Acid batteries must be in spill proof box.
Carburetor may be Quadrajet, or Holley 3310, or two barrel for open chamber heads. Number must be legible on choke horn, with no modifications allowed except for circle track floats, Ford – Mopar carbs check with tech.
Headers must be 1 3/4" or less.
No electric fuel pump. Stock mount Holley and Carter allowed.
Starter must be stock.
Any belt drive pulley system. Fuel, gas only. Max 22 gallons fuel cell with a minimum 1½" x .095 loop protection
Minimum ride height is 4" from frame rail to ground
5" HIGH rear spoiler allowed , no greater than 8” long.
No radios or electronic traction control devices allowed (no computer devices allowed)
WINDOW NET:
Window nets are mandatory. It may be the mesh or web style.
A quick release window net system must be used. No open wheel cars. Car and driver combined must weigh a minimum of 2500 pounds after the race.

[This message has been edited by Elmo (edited December 11, 2003).]

racer17j
Member
posted December 09, 2003 05:11 PM
i only see 2 things i don't like
#1 no ford nine inch rear ends
#2 there are to many engine combo's there i would make it 360 cid/9:1 compression with stock cast intake and stock cast heads shouldn't have an option for any after market heads and run 4412 carb. that would put everybody on a levle feild. that if you have this you have to have that stuff is a tech mans night mare


Elmo
Member
posted December 09, 2003 08:03 PM
Perhaps the head rules could use a diet. It's an honest effort to allow everyone a chance to run what they already have to avoid an additional investment. For the most part a simple rocker cover removal is all that is necessary to prove you have the correct casting and intake combination. As for allowing non-oem heads there are several facets of thought along those lines. For instance aftermarket heads may seem expensive at first, instead often they are cheaper in race trim. For example, I have one set of Powerpack heads with twice the money invested than a comparable set of Dart Iron Eagles purchased over the counter - race ready.
I know the ford rear is an ever-so popular item in racing. Unfortunatley costs can quickly skyrocket for the latest and greatest tricks and hardware for rear diff. The sky can be the limit on todays aftermarket 9" rears. Also, if you allow the 9" then you allow the trailing arm mounts to be moved anywhere. This alone makes enforcment of the factory location rule impossible.

So yea, maybe you could race with an oem set of heads with a limited investment and no machine work or aftermarket parts like SS valves, but most racers will lean towards the higher end of the spectrum on costs.
A large percentage of the racing industry is a firm believer in the 9" Ford in terms of safety. With a different mindset like racing and a limited amount of modification and convienience - to do more with less the fact rears suffice. For instance you can gear the fact rears with OEM parts, you only give up running one to one as with a race only chunk for the 9".


bigcityracer
Member
posted December 09, 2003 08:36 PM
Those after market heads are cheap for those chevys, but try buying a set for a olds motor.


racer17j
Member
posted December 09, 2003 08:42 PM
i just don't understand why i'm the only guy in the world it seams like that can get by with running low dollor motors and making them last lol i have less in my long block them most sets of after market heads cost as for the nine inch deal if you look at the sims limited mods those guys are spending a grand to beef up the stock 7.5 rears in there cars so you can spend tons on anything or you can build stuff yourself and save money we has a big discussion on another forum about floaters in a hobby stocks guys that are buying everything and spending 8-900 on a ford rear end where i can build one with gear and good axles for 500 and it's still ez to tech the stock mounting all they have to do is messure the trailing arms as long as they are stock you should be good to go


Elmo
Member
posted December 11, 2003 07:08 PM
I added a few items. Take a look.


racer17j
Member
posted December 11, 2003 09:22 PM
not sure what you changed but i do see something you might wan to look at that i may have missed or that you added in your tranny rules there would be a big advantage to letting the glide guys run without a converter compared to a manual without alowing them a mini clutch. here is a suggestion make them run a hollow converter and some fluid in it that adds to there assembly that will even it out even with an aluminum flywheel a stock cluch is pretty heavy compared to just a flex plate and drive coupler on a glide


Elmo
Member
posted December 15, 2003 04:11 PM
The reason is simple - Cost. Standard trannies with cone couplers are high dollar and so are mini-clutch setups.


racer17j
Member
posted December 15, 2003 04:31 PM
i agree i'm just saying make the glides run a comverter so they are not at an advantage over the manual guys a good raced preped glide with direct drive cost about the same as a mini clutch you can get a single disc mini clutch with hydro thro out bearing and scattersheild for 650 and then a stock tranny is about 50-75 most professional race preped glides are around 6-700 with coupler so they are pretty comparable the key is keeping it to a single disc the multi disj is where you run into the 5-600 for the clutch alone


modracer09
Member
posted December 26, 2003 09:09 PM
ive made a set of rules a lond wile ago rip mine apart and tell me what you think.


[center]
OUTLAW STREET STOCKS RULES/SPECIFICATIONS[/center]


The following specifications have been prepared by OSSARC and its officials as guidelines for the construction of a Stock Car. No express or implied warranty of safety shall result from publications of, or compliance with, these rules. They are intended as a guide, and are in no way a guarantee against injury, or death to participants, spectators or others.
The OSSARC promoter or his assigned technical steward should approve anything not covered by these guidelines. These specifications are intended to be in effect throughout the
auto-racing season. However, continuous development in auto racing and technology may necessitate changes in these guidelines and management reserves the right to change them at any time.

a. Air Filter: Must Fit under The hood of the car

b. Appearance: Racecars participating in race events must be presentable in appearance at all times. The Tech Committee may reject cars that are considered improperly prepared at any time.

c. Battery: Must be anchored securely and separate from the Driver and gas tank by a firewall and enclosed in a spill proof metal container. A marine type battery is recommended
d. Body:
Body must be stock appearing, and in stock position on the frame. Bodies may be interchanged year to year /model to model/ but must remain GM -GM, FORD to FORD etc. All chrome moldings, ornaments, door handles, glass or plastic components must be removed. Must retain stock dimensions. Roof must retain stock dimension with a minimum height of 48" measured in the centerline of the roof 10" behind the top of the windshield. Windshield angle must remain stock.
1.BODY MATERIAL
All exterior body panels may be steel, aluminum or fiberglass.
2. BUMPERS:
Must be stock both front and rear and securely fastened. Stock bumpers must be reinforced so that they will not fall off if impacted. Rubber type bumpers may be reinforced behind with a tube type structure. Stock appearing aftermarket nose cones allowed one or two piece.
3. DOORS
Doors must be steel and either welded or bolted securely
4. GROUND CLEARANCE
Frame height no less than 5" on side rails.
5. HOOD AND TRUNK:
Must resemble stock in appearance. Exterior hood hinges allowed but must have 3 front hood pins, If hood is removable it must have 3 front and 2 rear hood pins. Trunk lid must be removable, bracing may be removed, four trunk lid pins preferred
6. REAR SPOILER
Rear spoiler allowed but may not extend beyond rear edge of rear deck panel and must follow the contour of the rear deck lid. Maximum 5" by width of rear deck. No side pods or bracing of Rear spoiler
7. SCRUB RAILS
Side bars must extend no further forward than the rear of front wheel opening, and no further rearward than front of the rear wheel opening, maximum 1" x 2" welded or bolted to roll cage. No sharp edges. When bolting on scrub rails, you must use carriage bolts (or round-headed bolts), if hex head bolts are used, they must be counter sunk.
8. WHEEL OPENINGS
Wheel opening flares cannot extend past scrub rail. Wheels must not extend over 1/2 tread outside of body or scrub rails.
9. WINDSHIELD.
Must be replaced by full steel screening (1 inch square maximum). Safety glass or Lexan windshields are required on asphalt Tracks.

e. Brakes: Four-wheel hydraulic brakes are required. Lightening of backing plates, brake drums and brake shoes by cutting or trimming of metal is not permitted. Cooling holes must be drilled in such a manner that they do not weaken the unit. All 4 brakes must function properly. Factory disc brakes allowed. Adjustable proportioning valves allowed. Must have dual master cylinders. Brake adjusters allowed. No shut off devices allowed.

f. Chassis/Frame:
1. Must be full frame. Unibody may be used but must be tied together with 2" x 2" minimum tubing.
2. 105" wheel base minimum.
3. Frames may be cut in rear only at point not farther that 36" from center of rear end housing. Frames must be complete in front of firewall! No cutting in any way of frame in front of firewall.
4. Frames may not be widened or narrowed. And must be able to support roll cage on both sides. Must be full and complete both sides.
5. Minimum frame and body height from ground is 5".
6. Under slung chassis will be allowed. (A 50lb. Weight penalty will be used if you run an Under slung chassis. )
7. Rear of frame may be altered to accept leaf or coil springs

g. Drive Line:
1. Rear ends must remain stock. Stock Ford 9” will be allowed.
2.Rear ends may be welded or mini spools. (No Aluminum parts at all on or in rear end)
3.OEM production types 3-speed automatic transmission only. Car with motor running and in still position must be able to engage and move forward, then stop and engage and move backwards.
4.Drive shaft must be painted white. Drive shaft loop must no more than 6” back from the ends of the drive shaft.
5. Automatic Transmission must have working torque converter

h. Engine
1 Air Cleaner: Any air cleaner. It must fit under the hood. Must have an air cleaner to act as a flame arrester
2.Carburetor: One 2-barrel carburetor only. No alterations other than jetting allowed. Holley 4412 or Rochester 2 BBL to stock specifications. Crew's choice. No four barrels and no fuel injection systems.
3. Camshaft: Any hydraulic camshaft may be used not to exceed .450 lift on intake or exhaust with stock type hydraulic valve lifters at the valve. NO ROLLER CAMS
4. Crankshaft: Stock cast iron crankshaft, no knife edging and no after market cranks.
5. Cylinder heads: Any cast iron straight plug Manufacturer's head allowed. No angle plugs, bowties or after market heads allowed. No Vortec Heads.
6. Displacement: The number one spark plug hole must be even or ahead of the center of the top ball joint. Engine must be centered in frame 1“inch tolerance.
7. Distributor: Stock factory electronic ignition allowed. NO MSD.
8. Exhaust. Any Cast iron exhaust. Headers allowed. (No crossovers or 180s). Exhaust pipes must extend back under car and exit behind Driver and outside body sheet metal.
9. Fans: Steel fans only no electric fans.
10. Fuel pump: mechanical pumps only, no electric pumps.
11. Intake manifolds: 2 or 4 barrel must be unaltered, stock production cast-iron. No porting, polishing, acid dipping or grinding. (A 50lb. Weight penalty will be used if you run a4 barrel. )
12.Oil Pan: Any wet sump oil pan with 1-inch hole at most visible spot.
13.Overbore: Max. Engine size (stock only) 350, 351 and 360. Max .060 over bore same make as chassis V8 only
14. Pistons: Any brand, 3 ring flat top piston only. No Forged Pistons allowed
15. Pulleys: Aluminum pulleys are allowed
16. Radiator: Must fit in stock location no aluminum radiators must be copper.
17. Rockers: OEM or Roller Rockers.
18. Rods: OEM Stock production or aftermarket solid steel rods are allowed. No titanium or aluminum. Maximum rod length is 5/7”. No polished rods allowed.
19. Starter: Stock Starters Only. High Torque Starters Allowed
20. Water Pump: Cast iron water pumps only.

i. Fuel & Fuel Cell: Gasoline only. Any type of racing gas is okay. Racing fuel cell are required must be mounted by at least 2 steel straps, 1 ½ wide or 1” square tubing. Cell must be mounted in center of car and no lower than center of rear end.

j. Fuel line: Racing fuel lines highly recommend. No copper lines must be rubber or steel.

k. Ignition: Must be located within reach of outside of car in case of emergency. Must be clearly marked with a yellow triangle and totally separate from all other switches.

L. Interior: Interior must be completely stripped. Inner skins can be removed. The driver’s compartment must have front and rear firewall, as well as a floorboard that is free of any opening or holes. Holes must b patched with metal or aluminum. Cockpit style driver’s compartments are allowed. Floorboards must be constructed with 18-gauge steel or 1/8 thick aluminum plate

m. Role Cage: A full roll cage constructed out of 1 3/4 x .095 min round steel tubing is mandatory including, a minimum of four horizontal door bars on the drivers side. Left leg protection bar must be installed between the roll cage and the left front frame rail. All welds must be electric or mig and will be subject to the approval of tech inspectors. All roll bars in the driver's area must be properly padded and taped.

n. Safety
1.HELMET & APPAREL
Driver's fire suit is mandatory. No coveralls. Approved fire retardant driving suits include Nomex, Gragal, Simpson and Pyrotect. Driver and suit must maintain clean looking appearance. Fireproof gloves, neck collar, balaclava, underwear, socks, and shoes are recommended. No nylon shoes allowed Snell 1995 SA or newer approved racing safety helmet and complete driver's racing suit must be worn in all practice and race events and until car is parked in pit area.
2. BELTS AND HARNESS
A quick release lap belt of no less than 3 inches in width is compulsory. Shoulder harness mandatory, inertia reel cannot be used. Both ends of the seat belt must be fastened to the roll cage or frame with aircraft quality bolts, no less than .375 (3/8) inches in diameter. A minimum 2 inch double shoulder harness with a quick release harness will be approved if they meet size specification and in good conditions. Crotch "V" belt is highly recommended. Seat belts must be dated within the last 3 years.
3. FIRE CONTROL
Cars must have a current year approved fire extinguisher mounted in an approved mounting bracket and must be bolted down, and within driver's reach with seat belts fastened. Fire extinguisher dated no later than January 1st of the current year.
4. SEAT
An aluminum-racing seat must be used bolted to roll cage, not bolted to the floor. When mounting seat use minimum 3/8" grade 8 bolts with large washers to hold racing seat to seat framework. Minimum of two bolts on the seat back and two bolts on the seat bottom. Seat must be positioned completely to the left of the centerline of the car. An approved head restraint must be made of some energy absorbing material. Headrest side plates recommended.
5. WINDOW NET
Window net mandatory with minimum 3/8-inch rod. Must have top release.
o. Suspension:
Front:
1.Tubular A arms are allowed. (Movement of upper mounts allowed.)
2.Lower control must be OEM. (Bottom A-frames cannot be altered or moved)
3.No after market spindles.
4.Weight jacks are allowed.
5.Coil over shocks are not allowed.
Rear:
1.Leaf spring or coil spring suspensions only. Coil-leaf combinations will be allowed. (A 50lb. Weight penalty will be used if you run coil-leaf combo.)
2.Coil over shocks are not allowed.
4.OEM 4- link suspension, with stock mounting points and stock lower trailing arms, upper control arms may be modified to be adjustable on one end.
5.Only one shock per wheel does not have to be in stock location.
6.Weight jacks are allowed.
7. Sliders allowed
8. Pull-Bars Allowed. (A 50lb. Weight penalty will be used if you run a pull bar. )

p. Tires & Wheels
1. All wheels must be 8” racing wheels.
2. 1” lug nuts required.
3. Maximum tire size P235 x 15 (60's) with 8 inch tread
4. No grooving, or tire softener allowed.
5. No racing style tires, (i.e., Hoosier)
6. Mandatory ½ or 5/8 inch wheel studs.
7. 2 inch, 3 inch or 4 inch offsets only.
8. No after market-racing DOT tires

q. Weight:
1. All cars must weigh min. 3000lbs with driver before race. Min. 2800lbs. After race
2. A driver with all penalty's must weigh min. 3200lbs. Min. 3000lbs. After race.
3. All ballast must be painted white and must have driver's number on it.
4. All ballast weight must be bolted or clamped to chassis. (No tape, wire, hose clamps, plastic ties allowed.)

[center]ALL RACECARS ARE SUBJECTED TO INSPECTION AT ANY TIME.
ALL CARS MUST BE NEAT IN APPEARANCE AT ALL TIMES.
THERE WILL BE ZERO TOLERANCE FOR UNSAFE CARS.

Also if it doesn't say you can DON’T TRY IT![/center]

[This message has been edited by modracer09 (edited December 26, 2003).]

zeroracing
Member
posted December 26, 2003 09:26 PM
thats why i told you to rip them apart i will make changes to them with enough input my gole is to start a club that races at a few difrent tracks.


modracer09
Member
posted December 26, 2003 09:50 PM
ok here a idea for the link guys .
Rear suspension may be stock type four-point, but if so, no panhard bar is allowed. Three-point suspension with panhard bar is permitted. Third link or torque arm must be solid, may be mounted in rubber biscuit. Any torque arm must be steel or aluminum, ladder type construction. No spring loaded third links, lower trailing arms or panhard bars. Lower trailing arms must be solid, no rubber mounted. One shock per wheel. No additional shock absorbing devices on third link or torque arm.

than take the 50lb rule off the pull bar and make the weight rule 3000 after race for both stups but 3150 with the penaltys

and the slider one im thinking about still

------------------
Currently looking for sponsors for the 2004 race season if interested please
email me or drop a pm


racer17j
Member
posted December 27, 2003 03:58 PM
i'm not a big fan of if this then you have to have that rules i'd run her stock 4 link or multi leaf period no pull bars sliders or panard bars keep it simple thats the one thing i like about the new imca sport mod rules they are clear cut . you can run a solid 3 link with a panard and springs on top of housing only. the links all have to be a spec lenght or you can run stock 4 link and thats it no weight breaks for this or that think all cars should run the same weight alot easier to tech that way. we had 3 different weights in our limited mod class last year one for stock rockers and stock funtioning torque converter, one for mini clucthes and one more for mini clutches and roller tip rockers next year it's all the same weight


modracer09
Member
posted December 27, 2003 04:33 PM
Leaf spring or coil spring suspensions only. No coil-leaf combinations.
Coil over shocks are not allowed.
OEM 4- link suspension, with stock mounting points and stock lower trailing arms, upper control arms may be modified to be adjustable on one end.
Coil springs must be mounted on top and centered of rear axle housing.
Only one shock per wheel does not have to be in stock location.
Weight jacks are allowed.
Lift bars or similar devices are not allowed, even if originally equipped with such devices. (OEM Camaro or Firebird lift bars are not allowed)
No leaf spring sliders.

weight 3100 after race with driver

is this better ?

------------------
Currently looking for sponsors for the 2004 race season if interested please
email me or drop a pm


racer17j
Member
posted December 27, 2003 05:55 PM
looks good to me but i see a couple other things now lol
new aluminum radiators cost the same a new stock 4 core and work better making the engines last longer =less money in the long run also pistons. forged flat top pistons don't make any more power then a cast flat top but once again more reliable there for less cost down the road. so if i guy want to spend that money he can but it's not gonna make him any faster


modracer09
Member
posted December 27, 2003 06:03 PM
dont get me wrong i know what ya mean but alot of the cars around this area and tracks have rules where you cant run alum rads or the pistons an thats why i made them that way to get more cars to join the group and than make changes in the years to come im trying to get this group going for 2005- 2006


zeroracing
Member
posted December 27, 2003 09:03 PM
i see your point but those are rules that have no performance advantage so guys from other tracks would not be affraid to come and guys that only run your track would not have to worry about it we have something like that here we have the same class at two tracks only a couple rule difference but one is a performance issue our track has just a hydrolic cam rule no lift rule but the other track has a 450 rule so none of us can go there we get 30 cars a week they get 10. the way i see it if i want guys to come to my track i would makes rules that would alow them to come and not change anything and compete but alow more as long as it's not performance inhancing at my track. simple stuff like we did in hobby most tracks are imca around us so we ran imca rules but let some of the non performance thing go like any stock mount shock not just bilsteins and we ran plastic noses for years before imca did. that way we saved money by buying a shock that is better then a parts store shock for 20 bucks less per shock but if a guy wanted to spend 100 on a nose then let him if it's not going to make him any faster


Elmo
Member
posted December 28, 2003 11:52 AM
The primary difference between the two sets of rules I see are: Super-Streets is a class based on a Bomber suspension but look just like a latemodel and the Outlaw set appears to be just another set of Street Stock rules that will continue to look like the same cars we have now.
Super Streets give the tracks an alternative in looks and performance. Fans want to come and see RaceCars. They don't want to come see a bunch of junkers running around in a circle. The objective here is to pull in a new fan base in addition to the present one's we have here. If you can give the racer a set of rules that he can afford to race by and give the fans something that looks superfast and puts on a great show it's a winning combination.
Now there's nothing really wrong with Hobbys as they are now, there is a place for them. Here we have over a million possible fans everyweekend. Yet, there are only a few hundred that participate at all tracks combined. In order to bring in a significant percentage of those New fans New ideas are in order. We have to get local racing into the mainstay.


racer17j
Member
posted December 28, 2003 12:27 PM
i agree with you elmo i like the aftermarket body deal another thing we have went to in our imca type stocks is letting them put newer style monte and regal bodies on metric frames that has gotten the interest back up in the stocks which were almost dead 3 years ago getting less then 10 cars a nite where now we are back up to almost 30 a nite at times.like you said the fand get kinda sick of 3 classes all running the exact same bodies and it give new fans that don't know anything yet a way to tell right off what class the cars are in


dirtrace54
Member
posted January 07, 2004 11:18 PM
I'm gonna make to suggestions. These might be a little restrictive, mabye more of a bomber deal. But On the max 235/60, make it so only 15 inch rims are allowed. We had to make that rule here because of guys playing with the 14 15 combo for stagger.
Also make it so no more than two tire size difference around the car. Massive tire size difference and setup changes can make the front end braking pull hard to the left on small tracks (actually did that myself on the stock brake rules are track had).
On a compression note, even the best flat top motor freashly rebuilt with 305 heads should go over 140 psi on compression check (atleast mine didn't, it was 132 psi) this might be an idea.
On suspension, I would not let the leaf cars go to chrylser style unless it is a chrysler car. If the gm, make them run the camaros. That will even the field with the metrics. And dont let the metric montes run s-10 frames. That trick has been used also.
Mabye I'm too conservative, but this is an entry level class, and around here, the late models have been dyin a little due to the modifieds get looser on rules and street stocks also. But that may be another discussion.


Elmo
Member
posted March 04, 2004 05:00 PM
The tire size limit for SUPER-STREETS is 325-60, not 235/60. Big difference there. I was leaning towards mandating the harder compound tires after the first season for sure. Hence, giving everyone an opportunity to use up thier softies. Apparently there's not a whole lot of support from anyone for having the engine setback so far. I would have thought everyone would like the idea of having more rear percentage built into the cars. Also, there is a lack of support pertaining to the cutting down of frames for shorter wheelbases. There are tons of full-size metric (IMPALA) and LTD frames all around that can be had dirt-cheap. This set of rules would put them to use. I went by a rather large local junkyard today, there were no small metrics to speak of. A large percentage of them have already met the crusher.


rat406
Member
posted March 04, 2004 07:35 PM
How about a 101" wheel base so we can use up some of the newer camaro's the older ones are hard to find and high to buy


widebody
Member
posted March 05, 2004 06:29 AM
For a bunch of racers, Id think you wouldnt make rules that many tracks curently have problems with.
1. 17J is correct with the 9" think. Has any of you actually raced on a 7.5 Gm rear. After breaking rear axles, which leads to other damage(burned gears, bent tubes, wrecked car, etc. How much money was saved.
2. If you slow the cars down than all the engine rules, and suspension rules will take care of them selves.
3. Tires tires tires. take the tires away, mandate a min air preasure rule. find an intake adaptor, for under the carb that acts as a restrictor plate. Easy to tech. this will make the carb issues go away. Allow small tube exhaust, 1.5" tubes. Limit the air going in and out. cheap easy to tech.
Moroso adapter plate 64965 is a 2 bbls adaptor with 1 1/2 holes.
OR contract with a local fab shop to make some stainless steel restrictor plates, and have the track sell them for a resonable price, so traveling racers wont feel bent over having to buy it to run. Make the holes 1" or 1 1/4" or what ever you think your track would work well with.
Or like you said your planing to change the rules for 2005-6. Find a top runner to test the proto types. Many tracks test things during hot laps and you wouldnt know it unless They approached you to try it..
A few local tracks here are runnin the IMCA mod tires. easy to get used and arnt to bad new. easy to tech and police. 4 tires usually sell for 100$... and a few guys were even able to milk a whole season out of a set. (im not sure Id run them that long) but you get my point....They last a while..

And 17J the other point you made about the looks of the cars. I see it more and more. Guys are actaully taking pride in how the cars look, the number of junk looking cars drops every year. Guys are even pounding dents, and repainting them during the week. The cars look nice, the fans like it.

Elmo I see where yor tring to go with the new rules. I like it. what about the b-mods with a simple body rule change.
Look at it from a cost/benifit view. And I dont know your area so You'll have to answer these.
Where are these new cars coming from?
What does this do to existing classes?
How does this effect the nightly program?
How much later will the program run because of this new class.
If your replacing a class how does the existing class feel about this?
Who does these changes serve?
The rules are really secondary to survival of the class.
Good Luck..


Elmo
Member
posted March 07, 2004 07:58 PM
Widebody to answer a couple of questions from your post: The racers would come from 3-5 local classes. In a factory stock-style class the actual chassis is the cheapest item. When you already have a driveline combo and all the other items. Put it on paper and you should agree. Mods here are dwindling with less than enough cars at 4 tracks for a full field at one. Street stocks are only moderatly heathy with only a handfull of cars capable of winning from each individual track. Hobbies are making an effort of a rebirth with minimal success showing so far. Limiteds have had great success. But, in the growth of the class several drivers are lost in all the rule changes the limiteds have witnessed. Bombers here thrive, and even show between 20-30 cars at the most unpopular track. With the rules setforth, any one of the drivers from the above classes are capable making the switch to this approved chassis with little or no modification to engines at all. What have you gained? You have replaced Stocks which have all but vanished here, as well as Hobbies. Also give the bombers an additional option instead of competing against - at some times 40+ cars to make the feature. At the same time you create a class with a look all it's own, that is popular to most racers and fans. How many drivers wish they could have a car that looks as good as your average havatampa car off the floor?


widebody
Member
posted March 08, 2004 11:19 AM
I think a cheap fast "looking" car is a good concept. I didnt realize you were pulling cars from so many closer tracks. That does make a difference. Compared to being the only track around where if you want to race you play by the tracks rules or dont play.

Heres another cool body idea;
I ALWAYS find it cool when they let the cars run topless. Its just different, and no less safer than with a roof. Now That would be different.

Tire Idea:
Make the tires a 70 series tire like a 205/ 70/15. A tire that now a days are either free or for those who want new are 4 for $100 at the Wal. give a spec tread wear out, to keep the soft performance tires out. that would keep cost down, and the big motors would be worthless. Nothing more shamfull than a guy with a small motor pulling on a guy with a big motor blowin the tires off the car..