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Author Topic:   wire
Whitelightning
Member
posted August 26, 2003 12:29 PM
ok iseen where racer17 j had posted a wiring diagram a while back but I cant pull it up. I need to know how to wire up a chevy with a ford silinoid using a toggle switch and push butto so you can turn the engine with or without cranking I tought I had it but I dont so anyone who can help please


jhon hollomon
Member
posted August 26, 2003 01:54 PM
Try this link, it may help http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm


30rulz
Member
posted August 26, 2003 05:09 PM
here's how to wire a ford sol for a gm just put a little short wire maybe a 2 inch piece of # 10 between the s post on the gm sol to the big battery cable post on the gm sol. run your positive battery cable to the ford sol and hook the other side to the big battery cable post on the gm starter sol. run your start wire from your start switch to the s post on the ford sol. when you hit the start switch, the ford sol will energize and the little wire will energize the gm sol. this way you only have power to the starter when starting and it won't short during a race. be sure to ground the ford sol and also make sure the engine is grounded good to the frame.


racer17j
Member
posted August 26, 2003 07:12 PM
hey white i emailed you the diagram i sent it to jammin a while back to put in the tool box but haven't seen it on there

jhon thats one way to do it but that will not alow you to turn it over with the hei switched off that one defeats the whole reason behind doing that on a race car and thats keeping your power wire from under the hood

[This message has been edited by racer17j (edited August 26, 2003).]

jhon hollomon
Member
posted August 26, 2003 09:06 PM
Yeah I noticed that, sorry for the confusion.


powerglides
Member
posted August 27, 2003 07:05 AM
Powerglides
the reason for the ford solinoid is to get it away from the heat of the headers. If the solinoid gets hot it wont work. and your motor wont turn over. there really isnt any more wire just run slightly different.
The other advantage is you can crank the motor with the ignition off and build fuel and oil pressure before firing up.

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Jason Boivin
http://www.rcracing-team.com


Whitelightning
Member
posted August 27, 2003 08:59 AM
thanks racer17j and all that helped I really had to do it that way with my distributor locked that the only way so I can turn it over then hit the switch, thanks again, also if the engine is running and you remove the postive battery cable and it keeps going the alternator is working right


powerglides
Member
posted August 27, 2003 12:57 PM
The only advantage is you eliminate an extra wire running to your starter,you can mount the solenoid inside the car and run your push button wires straight to it going a short distance enabling you to turn your engine without firing the dist.but like glide said you could do that easily w/o a ford sol.The heat thing makes sense also,its the chevy sol thats turning the engine so what difference does it make if its powered by a cold sol if its still hot.Does anyone have an answer for this?I personally like the using the ford sol only for location purpose not heat b/c that does not make sense.

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DEANJR#22


30rulz
Member
posted August 27, 2003 05:07 PM
the main reason I see is you don't have voltage going to the starter from the battery in case it shorts the battery cable to the manifold or the frame during a race. the voltage stops at the ford sol and given enough chances it will short out and when it happens and it will drain your battery and maybe burn your car down


racer17j
Member
posted August 27, 2003 06:38 PM
i put it on the firewall on the inside of the car that way when my front end and fuel pump get torn off or my starter beaks and falls off the only live wire i have going thru the fire wall is the hot wire for my hei. it also takes away the risk of my pos cable getting hot and shorting on the exaust. and realy once you see how to do it it makes it so ez to wire you could do it in your sleep it's real nice when you have to change the starter and you only have to undo one bolt and don't have to worry about your wrench hitting the frame if your like me to lazy to unhook the neg lol. you may think it's gonna make alot of wiring but it's all about jumper wires you run a jumper from the big post on your starter to the small one where the starter wire goes on a stock set up myself i made a plate out of some scrap tin that connects the two no chance of that every comming undone like a wire connector could. and you run a hot wire from the side of the ford up to your push botton and then a jump wire off that to your toggle switch now bolth push button and ignition switch have juice and only 1 wire now you run one from your toggle to your hei'tach and gauges and off the push button oes down to the small s post on the ford then off the big post on that same side you run a 2gauge wire down to the starter might sopund confusing but believe me it's simple


powerglides
Member
posted August 28, 2003 08:56 AM
Powerglide
Now that you have stated your battery must be under the hood. I would still go with the ford solinoid just mount it up on the fire wall or somewhere away from the headers.
When you use the ford solinoid you bypass the gm solinoid. If you have never had a problem with heat soaking into your solinoid you are lucky. But why risk missing an event because the car wont start. Ford solinoid is a ten dollar part making sure you don't miss the event.

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Jason Boivin
http://www.rcracing-team.com


powerglides
Member
posted August 28, 2003 12:44 PM
Can someone please explain how are you bypassing the gm solenoid.That makes no sense!There are several advantages to running a ford solenoid but the gm sol.is still cranking the engine.

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DEANJR#22


jhon hollomon
Member
posted August 28, 2003 03:27 PM
They aren't bypassing it exactly, just engaging it differently.


30rulz
Member
posted August 28, 2003 05:35 PM
ok if you look at the diagram that jhon hollman put on here and that is not the best way to do it. erase the red wire and hook the blue wire to the red post on the gm starter. now add a short piece or #10 wire with the proper fitting crimp ends on it [maybe a 2" piece of wire]from the red post on the gm starter to the blue post on the gm starter and you've got it


30rulz
Member
posted August 28, 2003 05:37 PM
one more thing . the power supplied by the ford sol will engauge the gm sol and start the car and this will work every time


30rulz
Member
posted August 28, 2003 05:41 PM
put a little jumper wire between the big post on the gm starter to the s post on the gm starter and it will engauge the gm sol from the 12 volts from the ford sol. just think of the ford sol as a big switch between the battery and the gm starter.........
quote:
Originally posted by waltonjr1:
Can someone please explain how are you bypassing the gm solenoid.That makes no sense!There are several advantages to running a ford solenoid but the gm sol.is still cranking the engine.




30rulz
Member
posted August 28, 2003 05:43 PM
you cannot bypass the gm sol !!!! something has to engauge the starter drive!!!
quote:
Originally posted by waltonjr1:
Can someone please explain how are you bypassing the gm solenoid.That makes no sense!There are several advantages to running a ford solenoid but the gm sol.is still cranking the engine.




waltonjr1
Member
posted August 28, 2003 08:46 PM
Amen!

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DEANJR#22


racer17j
Member
posted August 28, 2003 09:25 PM
you have a point there glide but that is very rare to see the battery have to be under the hood and you guys are right you don't bypass the gm it will still turn hard when it's hot


jay116
Member
posted August 28, 2003 11:05 PM
talk about confused, I am now. Why would I run a solinoid to apply power to another solinoid. All the solinoid is, is a remote switch. I am going to hit a switch to turn on a switch to turn on switch to start my motor? Sounds like failure waiting to happen.
I will just continue to bypass the gm solinoid and keep my shiny side up. =}


------------------
Jason Boivin
http://www.rcracing-team.com


Dirt01
Member
posted August 28, 2003 11:55 PM
Try this website, it will answer all your questions about why to use a FORD solenoid.
http://www.novaresource.org/starter.htm


racer17j
Member
posted August 29, 2003 12:29 AM
thanks dirt but those all will not alow you to turn it over without firing


powerglides
Member
posted August 29, 2003 06:09 AM
i just checked mine the other day same voltage to the starter when i push the button as my battery had


Donnie Ross
Member
posted August 29, 2003 03:08 PM
when using the ford solonoid you have a lot
more amperage available to the s terminal of the gm starter as most use a much larger wire or jumper from the battery terminal of the starter than possible running from a starter button, unless you run battery cable size wires to your button, lager wire or jumper = less resistance especially when hot so more amperage is there to run the starter, and if I messed up explaining GM used the same setup for big block vettes and motorhomes to cure hot starting problems.


stockcar5
Member
posted August 29, 2003 10:23 PM
donnie is right.

i had all kinds of trouble with hot starts and burning up soleniods till i bought the tilton starter and the ford solenoid. been running 4 years on the same setup with headers. if nothing else the ford solenoid is a great place to hook up power for your timing light!!

luke

FastEddy
Member
posted August 30, 2003 01:02 AM
Everything people have stated about heat is correct. In any conductor, as the heat increases, so does its resistance! Appearently, with all of the heat produced by the headers and the hard running of the engine during normal racing causes a great deal of heat buildup which causes increased resistance. The resistance in a circuit will cause the the voltage to drop and the current to increase. The stock circuit cant handle that. So, if you look at the diragram, you will see clearly that the gm sol is not being bypassed. A larger cable with a much greater current carrying capability is being used. Another thing to keep in mind on any circuit is the fact that the longer the wire the more resistance in that wire thus a lower voltage at the opposite end where the work (watts) is performed. The small wire from "bat" to "s" is very short and positioned in such a way that the wire is not heated as much thus reducing the amount of resistance which will prevent a voltage drop.
I hope that helps!

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Ed


66jj
Member
posted August 30, 2003 07:12 PM
WOW

THE REASON FOR THE FORD SOLONOID IS...........

SO THAT YOU ONLY HAVE 12 VOLTS RUNNING THRU YOUR CAR TO THE STARTER WHEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY STARTING THE CAR.............

YOU SHOULD MOUNT THE FORD SOLONOID AS CLOSE TO THE BATTERY AS POSSIBLE OR NEAR ALL YOUR OTHER SWITCHES ETC IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CAR. THE FURTHER FROM THE BATT, THE MORE 12 VOLT WIREING YOU HAVE THAT CAN GET CRUSHED, HOT, ETC...


SEVERAL PEOPLE SAID THE SAME THING MANY POSTS EARLIER ALLREADY.
JEFF


widebody
Member
posted September 02, 2003 11:32 AM
For those who still dont want to listen to the benifits and reasons. I could show you the burned up starter and the battery terminal that completly burned off the batery, when my car started and didnt stop starting. The solinoid stuck ON!!!

This was when I didnt know any better, i didnt have a master shut off or ford solinoid cause i was SO SMART I didnt need one. I was SO WRONG!!

Like most lessons when they hit the wallet you learn quicker!! $129 starter, $60 battery.
Master shut off $20, ford solinoid $12..


powerglides
Member
posted September 02, 2003 01:15 PM
$129 starter, $60 battery.
Master shut off $20, ford solinoid $12..


Winning.......priceless


30rulz
Member
posted September 03, 2003 08:36 PM
how about sitting in the pits waiting for the wrecker to push you on the trailer and watch everyone else run the feature!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Rychtr:
$129 starter, $60 battery.
Master shut off $20, ford solinoid $12..


Winning.......priceless




vosevichs
Member
posted September 05, 2003 10:39 AM
Wire up the starter with the ford Solenoid like everyone is telling you to. Jumper on the Chevy starter solenoid goes from the Bat terminal to the S terminal, not the R terminal. Do you use a MSD box? Wire it up totally seperate from everything (gages, Tach) exactly like the instructions say, If you don't have instructions, Download them from MSD. They have a wiring diagram for every set-up you could imagine. Are you running a tach like an Autometer? Wire it seperatly, Gages? wire them seperatly. The advantages: Better starting, More Voltage to the MSD, No interference in your Tach, Who needs the lights on in the gages during the day, the MSD could use that voltage. Wire each thing/system seperatly. You'll end up with a electrical system that is much cleaner ,simpler, and easier to work on later. You'll won't have wires going everwhere and to everything. We don't run an alternator, so if we can turn off the gage lights, that's more voltage to the ignition. Another advantage to the ford solenoid that nobody mentioned is: Our battery is in the back of the car, so the Ford solenoid gives us a place to hook up our timing light. The ford solenoid is a good junction box, I run everything right off of the solenoid, and run my grounds back to the solenoid mounting bolt. That way when you turn off your main switch everything is dead. It would be much easier to just show you my car. Some of my friends cars are just a mess of wiring. They don't even know what goes where.
Main thing is keep it SIMPLE, Keep it CLEAN, and Keep it SEPERATE. And soldier all connections.
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Scott Vosevich
RDBoyz Racing

[This message has been edited by vosevichs (edited September 05, 2003).]

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