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Author Topic:   advice on first car
mechanist
Member
posted March 13, 2003 11:59 PM
I too am building my first Hobby Stock. I've been advised to worry about the handling and getting the HP to the ground first and foremost. HP means nothin if the car handles like dawgdoo and your tires do nothin but spin. Seems like good advice to me. As for the used car I would suggest going over it with a fine toothed comb and fix any problems it might have first. Don't want any hidden surprises (at least I don't like 'em).Good prep makes for more racin than wrenchin.Good luck and let me know how its goin.

BRAKES are for P***ys
Big Bear


c21
Member
posted March 14, 2003 03:32 PM
here, here odb93 that's exactly what i'm talkin about. I'm even thinkin about runnin a stock motor the first year or till I get the suspension to my liking. This will take out numerous variables and wild goose chases. I know lots of guys who spend big money on HP and still run in back of pack.

Sideways is the best way
Big Bear


Dixon
Member
posted March 14, 2003 05:48 PM
Mechanist,

Which engine program are you getting? I've got the Mr. Gasket DYNO 2000. It's pretty good about changing everything, except intakes, there aren't a whole lot of options. I think it's a little optimistic too, but at least it gives you a baseline to compare against when you run tests.
As far as your engine is concerned, I'm assuming your going to use the marine intake (cast iron version of the Z-28) with the double hump heads. Do they allow a double pumper carb and head work? My rules are similar, and if you could tell me some more specifics I'll let you know what I'm running. I run an '80 Camaro as well.

Dixon

66jj
Member
posted March 14, 2003 05:57 PM
If you guys race with a stock motor or a weak one, and get your car to your liking, then upgrade your motor you will pretty much be starting over on set up etc.

you will get some good experience though!!

jeff

Big Bear
Member
posted March 14, 2003 06:47 PM
Yeah but at least you'll have a baseline right and maybe save a lot of tail chasin.

Big Bear

ryan
Member
posted March 14, 2003 08:36 PM
First two years of street stock I had basically a claimer motor against guys with double humps and bowties and I did o.k.
This year I whipped out the cash and bought me some Horsies! Don't start out with junk. Get as big a motor as you can afford. You need to learn how to drive with power. Racing is not much fun if you aren't very competitive. Especially if your inexpensive motor keeps breaking down.


mechanist
Member
posted March 15, 2003 02:10 AM
you just need to find a happy medium between no motor and a powerhouse! longevity is more important now, and handling. (2 cents worth)


c21
Member
posted March 17, 2003 11:48 AM
You will get more than 280 horses out of the combo you're talking about,the computer program may be talking about net horsepower figures(smog pump alternator etc)i ran with the same rules and used a 240-250 at .050 duration cam @ 500 lift,2.02-1.60 heads,marine intake(was q-jet)12-1 popup forged pistons,and hogged out center dump manifolds and i would guess it was about 380 horses give or take.One overlooked trick is don't just use any old HEI dist they start giving up around 4500,use a good coil and module and you will feel a difference,and with more spark you can go richer on carb to cool the engine and also wider plug gaps,the engine will be a lot smoother too,plus a good carb of course.


mechanist
Member
posted March 17, 2003 10:09 PM
The old 327 cam is really old technology,newer cams have a lot faster opening ramps and are more efficient,maybe the program is leaning towards known cam profiles?,i wouldn't use it like a bible,it doesn't sound as though it's giving you enough options,try some of the magazines they will dyno an engine and tell you exactly what they used to get the same power they got.


mechanist
Member
posted March 18, 2003 11:29 PM
About the distributor quote from above....we have been racing a late model and stock for a few years and we have used a stock HEI in both with the only changes being removing the weights and vacuum advance and welding the weight mounts solid. My brother finally went to an MSD setup on the late model and didn't notice any difference except that the stock started breakin up around 7200. I know they are rated for lower RPMs, but I have seen this first hand that the stock HEI works just fine up to 6500-7000. Mabye we just got lucky


bduff509
Member
posted March 30, 2003 06:44 PM
Mechanist,
I've been running late 70's-81 front ends for 4yrs now. I don't know how your track is set up but at ours there are some very unforgiving Jersey Barriers on the front & back stretches & really, REALLY hard Euke tires on the inside of the corners. The stock Cam/Fbird spindles are flimsy. It only takes a kiss on one of those tires to bend your tie rod mount into a throw-away. Try welding (heads removed) 1/2" bolts inside the curve in the arm.
I'm allowed to run jackers & aftermkt. springs front & rear but my best season so far was with stock leaves & cut down stocks in the front. I think I used a Cam. V6 on the left & a Fbird (from a 75' w/400 Pont.) on the right W/2 turns cut off the top of both. The nice thing about stock leaves is you have a good bit of leeway in how you stack them.
Shocks are critical. Without good shocks you may as well stay home. I agree, Afco,Pro, I think even Carrera might make "stock mounting" shocks. Many tracks' rules have some very grey areas. Take advantage of them if you can. Street shocks don't on a dirt track.
Engine-wise, you don't need killer HP to go fast if you can stay fast through the corners. The trouble with that is, if you get caught in traffic & you can't win the drag race to the next corner, you're not getting that position. Don't misunderstand, you don't need to go nuts,but if you start out too small,as 66jj said, you may have to learn to drive all over again. I started out with a stock(73' Laguna) 350 = .030 bottom end w/.470 cam,an old set of 1.94 fuelly heads & a Wiend Stealth intake & an out-of-the-box 4412 & still made top 10 for the year racing against $5k - $7k motors. It cost me about $350 to build. It's suprising how easy big-buck motors blow up.
The most important thing you can do is make your car handle & get every second of seat time as you can.


mechanist
Member
posted April 01, 2003 01:21 AM
several things to keep in mind here. Horsepower is good thing in a street stock. The cars are heavy and the carbs are usually resticted. Without hp you run at the back. The suspension is also very important. New leafs do a wonder for your driving ability. Get the best shocks you can afford. then learn to drive. Don't go messing with the car each week until you can consistently finish up front. Then you can make small changes to get faster. But above all remember to focus on staying out of trouble. You cannot learn anything sitting in the pits broke. IF YOU RACE WITH THE SQUIRRELS YOU ARE GONNA GET YOUR NUTS CRUNCHED!


dirtrace54
Member
posted April 01, 2003 01:38 PM
37 is about right. I run my stocker at 35 and my brother runs his late moel at 37. The only reason i run my lower is thats where the guy i got the cam from told me to. They say not to go above 38 unless the cam has been degreed. Possible predetonation I guess. Good luck this year


mechanist
Member
posted April 01, 2003 10:11 PM
madmodshoe:
Racing with squirrels...LOL!
And just when is horsepower a bad thing? :-))
Thanks for the pointers on setup. I can imagine fooling yourself into spending all your time on fiddling with setup when it's just the driver needs more setting up than all else. Good point about staying out of trouble. That's all that's needed is the new guy to wreck the front runners. Good way to make friends... It;s some relief to see that they still have that problem at the Busch level, maybe I won't feel so bad if it does happen:-)) Everything I read stresses seat time. I'm looking forward to the snow going away and getting to it. Thanks.

Dirtrace54.
yeah, it doesn't take much detonation to ruin an engine. Brother-in-law's car had an ignition problem, had minor detonation trouble. Next practice, a couple rod bearings turned as the rods had been tweaked just enough to scrap out the bearings after running a half hour. Bummer.
There was a circle track article that mentioned there was no point in going to fancy ignition parts under 10:1 and 6000 rpm. A stock hei module retards 2 degrees after 45-4800 I am told, so at 37 degrees with fixed weights, you are really running somewhat less than that at 5000 unless you time the engine at 5000. Probably better to err on the safe side. Better to finish than break. I was planning on getting an MSD coil for it, the module has to retain "stock look" by the rules, but might just try it first. Anyone tried the 18 volt dual battery method compared to a higher output coil for reliability?
You have a good year too dirtrace, and everyone reading this for that matter. Stay safe, go fast, win stuff.
Thanks.


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