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Author Topic:   first street stock
Big Bear
Member
posted March 12, 2003 08:37 PM
I'm building my first street stock and am using a 1981 Monte Carlo. I've been reading lots of materials but have been getting more confused by the day. I have no one to bounce ideas off of. Glad I found this forum. I have to run a stock front suspension and am wondering if any one out there can advise me on the best way to build it. how far to go with aftermarket parts etc. I will be runnin a 1/4 mile clay semi banked track and am on a tight budget(wife)lol. Any and all help/advice would be deeply appreciated. Rules read alot like IMCA Hobby Stock rules with exception that after 3 feature wins in Hobby Stock class you must move up to sportsman class.Thanks again in advance, Big Bear.

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elvislomas
Member
posted March 12, 2003 08:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
I'm building my first street stock and am using a 1981 Monte Carlo. I've been reading lots of materials but have been getting more confused by the day. I have no one to bounce ideas off of. Glad I found this forum. I have to run a stock front suspension and am wondering if any one out there can advise me on the best way to build it. how far to go with aftermarket parts etc. I will be runnin a 1/4 mile clay semi banked track and am on a tight budget(wife)lol. Any and all help/advice would be deeply appreciated. Rules read alot like IMCA Hobby Stock rules with exception that after 3 feature wins in Hobby Stock class you must move up to sportsman class.Thanks again in advance, Big Bear.


welcome to this awsome site. I built my first car last year without the Dirt Forum.Wish I 'd known then.As far as your question:I have no idea ,still the f.n.g..But I'll learn something by reading your replies. Good luck this year.

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Big Bear
Member
posted March 12, 2003 09:02 PM
Thanks for the reply. Am real exited too. maybe you could PM me and we could discuss trials and tribulations where do you race?

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racer17j
Member
posted March 12, 2003 10:43 PM
exactly how tight a budget are you on good shocks and springs will pay for themself at the pay window i have the same rules and i got springs from speedway there is realy no way to tell the difference as long as you take the weight tags off them they are about 50 bucks a piece and i also run bilstein shocks. they are around 60 each depending on where you look. if you go with this set up and find somebody whilling to help you scale the car it will put you ahead of the learning curve. for the rates i run 1150rf,925 lf,250lr,200rr works great for me. and if you have any questions do a search can't think of too much we haven't coverd on here lol or just post it and somebody will help you out


Brad haddix
Member
posted March 12, 2003 10:51 PM
Hey Big Bear, you talkin' about Owendale?


Big Bear
Member
posted March 12, 2003 10:52 PM
Thanks racer17j the budget is kinda in the air right now may be good may be bad time will tell.was thinkin that 1100/900 splitwould be a good start and about the same the same rears. what ride height are you at? What do you know about PRO shocks?should I buy a couple of adjustables to help out on the tuning?

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Big Bear
Member
posted March 12, 2003 10:55 PM
you got it Mr. Brad Haddix. I live on Harsens Island Owendale is the closest dirt I've heard of. Do you race there? Gonna check it out this spring.


Big Bear
Member
posted March 12, 2003 10:57 PM
to Brad Haddix if you want to contact me just PM me we could chat.


Brad haddix
Member
posted March 12, 2003 11:05 PM
I'm trying to be ready for test and tune. First weekend in May I think, not sure, trying to find out. Can't get ahold of anyone, Last websight update was the banquet last season. I worked at auto craft for alot of years


Big Bear
Member
posted March 13, 2003 04:32 AM
Brad, I'll be lucky to be ready by end of season. will be building all spring and summer probably. but will try to get there at least 1 time per month to check it out and talk to other racers. What kind of car do you drive and what's the # I'll look you up in the pits.

brakes are for p***ys... Thanks,Big Bear

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racer17j
Member
posted March 13, 2003 11:53 AM
we have used pro's before not the adjustable ones but we have had alot of luck with the regular ones. your right on the springs it's just that the tru coils only come in those rates so thats what i run my ride heights are higher than most guys run because the springs are taller that way i have no trouble with tech and i like more body roll in my car then most also


Big Bear
Member
posted March 13, 2003 04:07 PM
What kinda of a-arm bushings and control arm bushings do you suggest? polyurethane or metal bushings. The more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards the poly-u it seems they might have a better tendency not to bind.How bout the front sway bar should I keep it stock or go with a bigger one

your suggestions and advice are greatly appreciated and valued thanks again, Big Bear
Brakes are for P***ys

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gould
Member
posted March 13, 2003 07:19 PM
i put stock bushings in my a-arms. make sure you put new ball joints in also. there is alot of stress on them. as far as sway bar goes, mines in the scrap pile.

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Dirts for racin', asphalts for gettin' there!!


Big Bear
Member
posted March 13, 2003 07:28 PM
Planned on rebuilding the whole front suspension the car is in rough shape. Are you happy with the stock bushings? Seems like a tighter feel would be better.Did you replace your Ball joints with stock? I dont know just thinking out loud.thanks for the insight. Big Bear

on the gas and kickin *ss


racer17j
Member
posted March 13, 2003 08:32 PM
no need for a sway bar and i too just run the stock bushings and never had any trouble. if you are gonna switch go with the poly. i've never ran the metals but have heard they are alot of maintence


Big Bear
Member
posted March 14, 2003 01:59 PM
Thanks guys the advice you all gave me has reduced my chassis bill considerably.what kinda wheels do you suggest and with which offsets would be good to start with. I seen T.C. Race Cars have Barts on sale for $32.50 for 15x8's. what kinda opinions do you have about tubes?

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Big Bear
Member
posted March 14, 2003 09:34 PM
just movin this back to the top. any more responders?


racer17j
Member
posted March 14, 2003 09:53 PM
i loike areo wheels look around and you can find the silver powder coated ones for around that price i got a few from pitstiopusa.com and jr motorsports.as for what offset to run best thing i could suggest is find someone with a set of scales and some differenrt offsets yuo can use for a day and see what the car needs before you go buy some. and btw when you do order then mesure the offset you want from the inside out i orders some 2 in offset i thought but they sell as back space so i got the wrong ones luckily i had a buddy that could use them so he just bought what i needed and traded me

[This message has been edited by racer17j (edited March 14, 2003).]

neil rucker
Member
posted March 15, 2003 07:07 PM
run tubeless until the rims get beat up some and wont seal good. use farm or emplement tubes and ALWAYS use plenty of baby powder on em. it works! neil


teamstertom
Member
posted March 15, 2003 09:00 PM
Race car setups are a fine line between being a hero or a zero. What works for one guy may not work for you. What works for you one night may not work the next race night.
Track conditions change all the time. It is even something that low dollar street stock racers must which,even during race night. Get to the track to see a good track for racing only to be ruined by a 50 lap late model feature which turned the track into a ice skating rink. Learn what a tire air pressure change does to your car....record those changes...keep a race log....it's a guide that can only help you.
Set a baseline to start with with a chassis set up. Keep it simple. Run maybe a 2" off set on the right,and 3" on the left. Shocks and springs are a key item to invest time and research in what may work for you. Maybe a 900# in the left front,1100# in the right rear and start flat across the back with 200#s. Tire stagger is important. Tape the tires and place accordingly.
When making changes to the chassis set up,don't go wild. Sometimes a simple change can put you on the right track. When you change a number of things, it is hard to determine what change was the right change.
Front end set up is a major key to set the car up in the corner. Ball joints should be fresh....if your race car was a 100,000 mile beater turned into a race car,your front end parts are wore out. Front end parts are cheap,but it's a job replacing them...but a tight front end is a happy front end.
I have been rebuilding a older Monte Carlo asphalt street stock into a dirt car with parts from thedirt forum(new and used),ebay,IMCA website,mrracing equipment,and alot of racing sites on the web,saving money in alot of areas to spend in in areas with can really use the added funds.


Big Bear
Member
posted March 16, 2003 01:36 AM
Teamstertom, thanks for you insight you touched on a few things that I thought of myself glad to hear some reassuring words.and answered some other questions that I had.This Forum is so cool.man to help others and then be helped in return is the SH*T.

on the gas and kickin *ss
Big Bear


racer17j
Member
posted March 16, 2003 11:48 AM
i'm gonna have to disagree with neil here run tubes always!!! just ask a buddy of mine after going thru 3 tires a nite for a month of so i asked him if he ran tubes and his answer was no needless to say next week he had tubes and not another flat the rest of the year. if your running imca tires thats a different story but if it's street tires on 8 in wheels i wouldn't try it. and you need to use radial tubes the farm tubes are not desined to take the heat you make on the track they work good for demo derby tires but not racing


Rookieracer76
Member
posted March 16, 2003 11:58 AM
I'm gonna agree with racer17j. you need to run tubes!

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M.t.Pockets MotorSports
1 516 672 9233
http://www.mtpocketsmotorsports14.freeservers.com/index.html


66jj
Member
posted March 16, 2003 01:56 PM
GET ALL THE SAME WHEELS IF YOUR HAVE DIFF SIZE TIRES SO YOU CAN BOLT THEM ON ANYWHERE.

BUY SOME SPACERS FOR ADJUSTING, YOU CAN USE A 3/4 SPACER ON A STANDARD 2 3/4 -5/8 STUD LENGTH OR UP TO 1 5/8 ON THE LONG 3 3/4 STUDS...

YOU CAN GET BOLT ON 2 INCH SPACERS IF YOU USE THE SHORTER STUDS ALSO...

JEFF

teamstertom
Member
posted March 16, 2003 02:24 PM
I ran tubes in my street stock for a long time,which were 235's and 225's street tires. Radial tubes and nothing else. Do not use any baby power inside the tire. Use a tie wrap to hold the valve stem thru the rim. I ran 12 to 15 lbs of air in the rear and never had a flat besides a ruined tire from a racin' thing. We now run Hoosier RC4's,and do not use a tube. These tires are so hard they never wear down. The secret to tubeless tires is the quality of rim you buy,checking in mind the bead area.


Big Bear
Member
posted March 16, 2003 08:48 PM
thanks guys,
Did anybody see the finish of the winston cup race at Darlington man what a fight. Thats whats racin is all about. and of course GM took the victory. All is good and how it should be.


Brakes are for P***ys
BigBear

[This message has been edited by Big Bear (edited March 16, 2003).]

Big Bear
Member
posted March 17, 2003 06:59 PM
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Big Bear

mechanist
Member
posted March 17, 2003 10:42 PM
Still in the initial stages and waitin for finnances to settle but still remaining pumped. Doin alot of readin and investigating. On the great info hunt. Am I sure glad I found this forum. Don't know what I would have done without it. Has sved me alot of money so far and I'm sure alot of headaches for sure.What a way to learn how to drive when you know how your car works.
To add to your comment on the race Sunday. As far as I'm concerned all those crybabies in WC can race in FEDEX Champ cars(I understand they're looking for drivers). WC runs fenders and bumpers for a reason. To use. Was that a good finish to the race Sunday? OOOOOOOH YEAAAAAAH. That's pure Stock Car Racin!

Rubbin's Racin'
Big Bear


hard_charger3
Member
posted March 19, 2003 08:22 AM
Big Bear,
I am running the same kind of car you are. I'm not exactly sure but I think your rules are a little different than what I can do to my suspension. I would recommend using steel bushings on both the upper and lower A-arms. As far as springs it would be wise to get you some good springs. Afcoils or Carreras. Carreras tend to be a little stiffer than Afcoils. Same goes for shocks. One of the main things you need to worry about is your percentages. Rear weight should be 52 to 54 percent rear weight. Left side weight should be about 52 percent rear weight. when you get the car to the track and need to change the way its handling, you do that with tire pressure and wheel offsets.

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Chris Daniell


Big Bear
Member
posted March 19, 2003 06:42 PM
Lets dont let this die

Big Bear

Hutch5375
Member
posted March 20, 2003 04:08 PM
This site is pretty sweet. I have an 82 Monte Hobby Stock, and we're looking into next season for our first full season. I need some suggestions for mounting the fuel cell in the trunk along with front engine bars. As far as the setup thing goes I used the base spring chart from Speedway and am going to tune from there. I can't wait for the season to start.


Big Bear
Member
posted March 21, 2003 04:58 PM
Do you have to run with a trunk floor pan? My buddy had to and he mounted his cell/can on to pieces of square tubing or angle I can't remember which I would suggest the tubing. these were attached between the kickers and then use your imagination from there.

Flat out
Big Bear


mechanist
Member
posted March 24, 2003 05:26 PM
Well I got it done this weekend. What I did was cut the floor out and weld two 1 3/4" square tubes bewteen the rear frame rails. I then just made a little base for the cell out of angle iron ans welded it to the square tube. I bent some .125 thick 2" wide strap so it would fit around the cell and bolted it in. I would think that square tubing would be more rigid than a trunk floor. I also put a hoop around the top of the cell with some 1 3/4" round tube and tied that back into the rear kickers of the main cage. Kinda hard to explain but I jope you guys get it. It's a pretty slick setup and it only took me a couple hours and a couple grinding disks on my angle grinder.


Big Bear
Member
posted March 24, 2003 07:06 PM
Do you plan on X-bracing the rear? My ttrain of thought is to keep the weight as low as you can. I beleive fuel weighs around 6lbs per gallon and if you use a 12-22gal fuel tank ... well you can do the math. Thats a lot of weight to be movin around up high. you can always brace the body panels off the kickers or anything else for that matter and still put a sheet metal floor in it if you think that will help. Just my opinion.What do you think?

Flat out!
Big Bear



Hutch5375
Member
posted March 24, 2003 09:48 PM
I run a 16 gallon cell with foam. At times I've run long events where we have to pit for gas so I need a big cell. I'll probably X the back with some .095 1.75 Round tube. From what I learned ina couple runs last year the car was way out of balance. It needs some rear weight ad I can do that by adding bars and bracing to the back. The important part is that the frame is being braced, not the body. I'm not concerned about the body, the frame holds the suspension and thats what pays the tire bill, the suspension not the body. Any ideas? I now have to figure out something for a good motor combo.


Big Bear
Member
posted March 26, 2003 08:29 PM
What's your motor rules and the track size and conditions?

Flat out
Big Bear


racenmotorsports
Member
posted March 27, 2003 08:15 PM
This is all great info. Espically for me since I just picked up an 84 Cutlass. I got one BIG question though I ripped out the interior and all the body molding and will have to replace the door skins, but what the heck do I do next??? There seems to be way too much and I want to try to do it logically, if that makes any sense.


Big Bear
Member
posted March 28, 2003 05:10 PM
You got some work ahead of you buddy. The fun has just begun. I say fun cause that is what it is.
Have you removed the insulation and sound deadening material from the whole inside of the car? You must remove this because it is a fire hazard. If you haven't, Buy some dry ice and put it on it for some length of time then smack it with a hammer repeat this as neccessary till its all removed.
Remove the body and weld all your seams this will prevent the chassis from flexing.You may want to have someone else do this if your not too confident in your welding skills. I did it myself and it wasn't too bad.
This should tide you over for now in the mean time get on the computer and get all the information you can.Go to the Track in the pits and look at all the different cars in the class that your gonna run in and don't be afraid to ask questions ( just be sure to verify the responses you get as some a**holes will give you wrong info)
If you don't already have a subsription to Circle Track magazine I suggest you get one and read it religiously They have good articles for the Saturday Night racer.
I also suggest you get some books from Steve Smith He will get you in the ballpark on alot of things.
Get as many racing catalogs as you can (many are free, free is goood) and start doing comparison shopping. Some prices very greatly between companies.

Last but not least keep up with this forum as it has saved me tons of headaches and money. This forum is THE best find in my searches so far. ATTABOY to jammin.

Hopefully this thread will keep alive for awhile its kinda taking on a life of it's own.

Good luck
Flat out!
Big Bear


dirtrace54
Member
posted March 29, 2003 01:31 AM
Big Bear, I have been racing for a few years won a championshipship and numerous features with a 79 regal on a 1/5 mile clay oval. The spilt mentioned earlier is a lil much. On the front springs I have tried anything from a 50 (950 and 1000) pound split to a 300 (900 and 1200) pound split. This best combo on a small track I have found is a 1000 (LF) and 1150 (RF) front springs. On the rear I like the 175 (LR) and a 225 (RR). Most books you will read will say different, but they are widely based on 3/8 ovals. The shocks i ran were pro stock mount fronts and actually took the pros off the back and went to a softer off-the-self stock shock for the rears. If the track you race gets dry slick, the softer rear setup helps the car react quicker to the track conditions. This works well on a 1/4 mile too. In IL, I used this setup on ALEDO and PEORIA 1/4 mile tracks and didn't change a thing from the MACOMB 1/5 mile. Also I agree with the stock bushings. I have tried all three and the poly and steel give a very small touch of better feeling but the stock rubber absorbs impact and rough tracks better. Hope this helps.


dirtrace54
Member
posted March 29, 2003 01:36 AM
OHH, and by the way, the brand of springs i ran were TRU-COIL from Speedway. I like AFCO better, but they dirt have the stock wieghts I wanted. I would agree with using the same brand on all four courners. Good Luck!

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Get off your asphalt
Do it in the DIRT!


racenmotorsports
Member
posted March 30, 2003 10:23 AM
Thanks for all the info Bigbear. I've already pulled all the sound dampering crap off, used a putty knife and it took a while, but it's done. I got a lot of work to do, soon as it warms up again I'll get busy on it. I was supposed to go to the track yesterday and today, but it rained yesterday and is snowing today. Maybe I'll get there next week.


Hutch5375
Member
posted April 06, 2003 12:10 AM
Man I got a ton done this weekend!! I put engine, door, and trunk bars in. I also put a plastic nose on the front. AND replaced ball joints and rod ends. Oh yeah, I painted the frame and put new springs in it too. Not too shabby for a rook.


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