Visit The Dirt Forum for More Information

Author Topic:   Berts and Brinns, love em or hate em?
JasonBrock
unregistered
posted November 12, 2002 05:32 AM           
I recently bought a mod roller. I have bought everything to put it together and now my local track decides to change the rules.Instead of running I.M.C.A. rules like last season, they are going to allow bert and brinn trannys. I have already bought a stock 3 speed trans, and a 1 nascar race old tilton 3 disc clutch. Clutch is nearly new!!!Less than 5 thousandths wear on discs. What about power, or weight, or any other advantages I don't know about!! Should I go ahead and use this setup, or do I need to be hunting a bert or brinn??


JasonBrock
unregistered
posted November 12, 2002 05:43 AM           
This is exactly why I sold my pro street car and bought a mod. I was under the impression that in a mod. class rule changes weren't a problem!!!!Man this burns me up!!! I had planned on trying to go to a couple of I.M.C.A. sanctioned races this year but I'm not changing trannys for just a few nights!!!!Man!!!


jammin
Administrator
posted November 12, 2002 07:52 AM
That is exactly why we try to run IMCA sanctioned tracks. Rules cohesiveness. When tracks go away and start making their own rules.......it isn't good for anyone. Since we don't have any late model tracks in Arkansas any more, I have seen a lot of guys that used to run lates going back to mods. They have all this equipment already....don't want to be claimed, so they joust the track owners into allowing berts and brinns with a huge claim so they know they won't have an engine claimed because they are running some big motor. So, in the end, the little man in the class that is trying to compete, loses. This will be about half of your class. That is why we try to run IMCA sanctioned any time we can. I feel that it is the best available sanction to keep the costs down on the mods.
If the costs keep escalating to that point where everyone has to run a 20k motor to compete and some tracks are there already....I will go back to a pure stock or something. Not worth spending 30k on a car for a 400 dollar to win feature race weekly.
I love mods, but the math doesn't wash. I feel the promoters are letting people do this so they make the cars faster, but they aren't going to pay you more money for doing so in most cases.

My 2 cents.

jammin


sixwillwin
Member
posted November 12, 2002 08:14 AM
Well said jammin!!


dirtbuster
Member
posted November 12, 2002 09:32 AM
Berts and Brinns, love em or hate em?

I would have to say love em. And once you run one you'll see why. They are very simple and easy to maintain and best of all they dont break. Takes one more worry off my mind.
I just cant see why IMCA cant pull their head out and see that in the long run they save you money and legalize them. No more searching for stock trannys just buy a BRinn put in and go racing and not worry about finding another one. Oh thats right you can run a Layne which is basically the same idea as a Brinn but with a stock case but they cost over twice as much....yeah that really cheapens it up.

As you can tell I am not a big supporter of IMCA. Just my opinion though.

tilley88
Member
posted November 12, 2002 09:49 AM
Wish I had your money!


#28
Member
posted November 12, 2002 10:41 AM
tilley 88
If your money response was directed at me then let me say that the last year we ran powerglides we went through 3 of them in 25 races... at 750 a piece thats $2250 in 1 year. Went to the Brinn... around $2000 for tranny and bellhousing ready to go..going on 3 years and never touched it. You tell me which is more expensive. Plus there are guys that run them 5 or 6 years in their super late models without touching them so think how long they will last in a mod.


#28

In previous years yes we had to add 50# to run a racing transmission (Bert, Brinn or automatic). but this year they are taking that 50# rule out and everyone can weigh the same.

We use to run powerglides and since they were considered a racing transmission we had to add the 50# for them as well. Got tired of breaking them and got the Brinn.

[This message has been edited by dirtbuster (edited November 12, 2002).]

jklostermann
Member
posted November 12, 2002 11:14 AM
I love my bert; no problems, no headaches, no nothing just a d@mn good tranny. maybe you should consider UMP


old racer
Member
posted November 12, 2002 12:03 PM
What do you guys think of using the coupler/internal clutch? I've never driven one but it seems like a real pain to make the car move.

I run lightened 4sp's and 3sp's (two different cars) and in high gear they hardly ever break. Simplicity of the clutch and everything sells me on it. I'm not opposed to racing transmissions but they aren't for me. I like the external clutch.

If they want to change the drivetrain it should be with a quick change.

As far as traction control goes, they'll probably just take away the MSDs and mandate HEI. That's what I would do if I were them.

KK17
Member
posted November 12, 2002 12:42 PM
hrt187
As far as the Brinn internal clutch it is only used in 1st or reverse. In high gear there is a direct drive through the tranny nothing to break or slip like an external clutch.

As far as getting the car moving, i agree it can be a little confusing at first but it takes only a few attempts to get the hang of it and then its old news.



jammin
Administrator
posted November 12, 2002 01:15 PM
So, if we keep on, lets just all go buy a late model and run then....UMP.....aluminum heads legal....lets all go ahead and spend the 30 grand on a decent motor to be able to run them right. My point is....where does it stop. For that matter...quick changes are less expensive too....lets run them. Why not? We will basically have a late model running for modified purses. Now tell me how much since this makes? Promoters love it when we do stuff like that...sure..make the racing better, faster. More money in their pocket....no more in ours. Less if every racer out there has to go purchase a bert or brinn. Most of the guys I know are running 3 speeds here and seem to be running fine without breaking. Money is going to be spent in the classes now....there is no limitation. But to keep the classes half way competitive, you are going to HAVE to limit the parts. If you don't, modified racing as we know it is going to suffer much of what late model racing here in Arkansas has done....it is going to be non-existant. This class was made in the beginning for the low dollar guy.....it has flipflopped now because everyone feels like they want to go faster.....Personally, i feel, if you want to go faster, go buy a latemodel and try to find a track that runs them. I do not want to see our modifieds turned into lates....we are as close to limited late models now as you can get without the tires....doesn't need to get any closer.

My two cents.

jammin


dirtbuster
Member
posted November 12, 2002 02:20 PM
I am not saying everyone should run out and sell their 3 speed or whatever and buy a Brinn but if you have to purchase a new transmission and your rules allow i would definitely recommend it.

I understand what you are saying about rules limiting certain parts but lets face it everything changes and so has the modifieds. Take for instance double hump heads. Years ago i am sure almost everyone was running these and a lot still do but these things are getting harder to find and if you do they are prob wore out and need lots of work. For the same money you can take a set of Sportsman heads out of the box and have a far better outcome. You are always going to have some that will spend the money no matter what. In the example of cylinder heads, if you limit it to stock heads you will have people spending 1000's cnc porting and angle milling a set of stock heads just to get the performance that you can with a out of box set of sportsman or darts. Not everyone is going to be able to go out and do that.

Now apply that logic to other parts of the car, transmissions, a frames, steering boxes, etc. These updated aftermarket parts will have to make their way into the classes otherwise eventually the stock parts will either become so hard to find or so expensive that we cant afford them. So in a way using some of these updated aftermarket items does keep the cost of racing down.

Its all in how you look at it. You can remember the past or live in the present its your choice.



Woody44
Member
posted November 12, 2002 02:43 PM
We run a bert here. But as far as spending a lot of money. We are racing for god sakes.
"cheap racing" is a farce. No one that wants to race can do it for "cheap" The fact that we have to run 9" ford rearends in these modifieds is far from cost efficient.
You can buy a quick change housing for $1100 dollars, but only have to spend 70 bucks for a set of gears. Even if you build your own 3rd member you still spend well over 250 dollars on a set of gears. There's no way to limit spending. Someone is always gonna have more money, nicer stuff, bigger trailers, its just inevitable. No sactioning body is strictly " for the racer" They all have problems. Some worse than others. just my opinion. But anyway...the bert is a lot easier to drive, and i noticed a big difference in throttle response. Less rotating weight is always better.


Sidebite
unregistered
posted November 12, 2002 02:48 PM           
Now wait a minute Jammin, don't you have a Layne? Don't even start on the cost savings/performance bit if you own one of these...........

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited November 13, 2002).]

jammin
Administrator
posted November 12, 2002 03:25 PM
Hit in the head.....lol....like I said, you can't control what someone is spending....period..
but what you can do is limit the parts at which someone is spending it on. There are always going to be high performance parts that are high dollar that are legal. I just don't see where any of these changes will help the class when someone is "forced" to buy something that is competitive. Yes, I have a Layne, I was not forced to buy it though. Huge difference. One of the whole reasons that I have a Layne is to try to cut my costs on motors. Less drag, more horses with a lower horse motor......Just the way I think for IMCA...long run, it will save me money on engines. I proved it this year...ran with 10k motors with Berts and Brinns....still competed with a 800 dollar 355. Now, you tell me what is more cost effective? You can spend 5k on a new glide if you want to....it will be legal. The new cases..light parts etc. The new case for that glide alone is like 900 bucks without any internals. The whole scenario with the berts and brinns are that they do not have OEM cases. If they did, they would be legal.
I just don't want to see a class change because other racers don't have anywhere to race with their equipment because it isn't legal. I am not slamming anyone here...just would like to see people run their stuff where they should be running it instead of trying to change the rules so they can do something else. Talk to a bunch of guys in Iowa....most of the tracks there are not sanctioned now and their classes are getting out of hand...askem. Tire rules going berzerk. This is what will happen as more rules are swayed to allow more and more aftermarket stuff in our cars. I am not trying to be a hypocrite here...just trying to voice my opinion on this issue. Everyone is down on Layne because of the cost of their tranny......if you run one, that cost isn't nearly so great. I knew someone would bring this up...but it is saving me money on motors....how can you argue with that?

jammin

dirtbuster
Member
posted November 12, 2002 03:51 PM
jammin,

I dont know of any rules that 'force' anybody to buy expensive parts if they dont want to. Depends on how you look at it though. Like the previous poster said 9inch Fords are not the most economical if you have to carry several gear sets. But we are 'forced' to use them because the quick change is illegal.

I am in IA and I would like to know where all of these non-sanctioned tracks are. I currently compete at a NASCAR sanctioned track and avoid IMCA tracks whenever possible. I dont like having to put up with all the BS associated with them. I think I know what you are talking about on the tire rules and maybe even the tracks in question.

Also, 800$ 355 Is that total or short block or what... i am interested to hear more.
What races are you running that you compete against 10K motors?


JasonBrock
unregistered
posted November 12, 2002 04:38 PM           
Say I get in the same ballpark as everyone else as far as a motor, setup, and driving, will someone with a bert out run me and my 3 spd. & clutch??


jammin
Administrator
posted November 12, 2002 04:43 PM
Local tracks here in Arkansas. Many tracks around here....no latemodels....so mods are the primary class. No latemodels. Several guys from the Mars Series and some other late model drivers have dropped back to IMCA. Ummm...I guess they won't use their engines or parts to run....he he. I guess that is why I know of one of them that refused a claim last part of the year last year.....no names, or tracks.

Flat top 355 with stock HO heads(1.86 valves lol), good carb, oil, cam, msd ignition...hyper pistons, stock crank, stock rods, drop in springs....
it doesnt any stocker than that bud.

I have been tickled with the results.

jammin


JasonBrock
unregistered
posted November 12, 2002 04:43 PM           
Hey Jammin, I hear you with the low dollar motor!!!! My 355 that I ran in my pro street car had around $1600 in it And I waxed $4000 dollar and up engines all season long!! I think it's more fun when you get the job done with a cheap engine!!!


dirtbuster
Member
posted November 12, 2002 04:56 PM
jammin,

How many motors do you go through in a season?
How many blow up or break something?

Just doing some rough figuring on parts to build 800$ motor and that leaves no room for machine work or intake, oil pan, balancer, rockers,pushrods etc.. could you please break down a little more what your motor consists of. I have a hard time beleiving you can build a 800$ motor from the pan to the intake and balancer to flywheel. I mean i just rebuilt a stock motor for a pickup and reused the stuff mentioned above and ended up with over 900$ in it. And that is a stock nothing special rebuild. I wouldnt spend less than that on it because i want it to last for years and it sure isnt going to be worked as hard as in a race car.

I always hear about guys running these so called 800-1000 motors but never beleive them....I hear 1500-1800 too but never beleived that either....maybe you can enlighten me.

jammin
Administrator
posted November 12, 2002 04:57 PM
One thing to think about here.....on the quick changes. Why is the quick change illegal? The reason it is.....a person can still get a junk yard 9 inch and be competitive with a floater. Money man....if you let the quick change go too.

You put this class out of reach of about 50% of your total mod drivers if you start allowing these parts in the game. Because the low buck guys wont be able to compete or even get close to competing. There is your problem with allowing these. The whole scenario of IMCA with the rules they have is for level competition. No matter what class you are running, you aren't going to limit the dollarz spent, but you can make it a more level playing field by keeping the guys in the low buck scenario in the race. I truely believe that is why these rules are the way they are. That is why the tire rules are what they are. The wheels are stamped. Thats why the rear end is still a 9 inch. Thats why the motor doesn't have to be policed, use the claim! I say if someone is kicking your rear and you think it is because of the motor, use the claim...thats what it is there for. People always think they will look bad or make people mad by doing that. If more people would do, our playing field in this class would be much more level. I know that there are many guys who don't like IMCA...but i for one think it is probably the best sanctioning organization for costs that there are. You won't get any cheaper in this class. I hope they don't change the rules. I saw several teams dwindle at this outlaw track I ran a little this year on, and I think it was solely because of money. Couldn't compete with big engines or ever get up in the top 5 to do anything to ever get any money back. There are many, many issues that are debatable within this conversation. You won't have anyone with the same view exactly.

jammin


jammin
Administrator
posted November 12, 2002 05:11 PM
Edelbrock intake....85 bucks
Stock heads....50 bucks
drop in springs 40 bucks
pushrods 20 bucks
Did the valve job myself...stock valves
Stock drop in springs...set them up
pinned the studs.....pin costs 4 dollars
cam was 100 bucks
had the block bored and honed freez plugs etc...local stock guy...125 bucks
pistons 80
rods 40
rod bolts 35
HEI distributor 35 bucks(not counting msd box)
timing chain 30
gaskets 30
fuel pump 50
valve covers 25
lifters 35
crank turned 60
rods resized 30
paint 3 bucks
harmonic 60 bucks
rocker arms....150

Ran this motor 10 races this year.....still running good.

1087 dollars with the rockers...forgot them.

Close enough?

jammin



dirtbuster
Member
posted November 12, 2002 05:28 PM
One problem I have with the claim rule is if I spend my time putting together a motor to run then that time is worth something to me and i feel like what i have as a finished motor i am happy with and most of all I know what I have. If I get claimed then their goes all that time i put into out the door for what 500$. Or if i take the exchange then I give up something I know about and can work around and take somebody else's motor that I take a chance on getting something equal to mine. I know the theory behind the claim rule is to keep costs down and it might to an extent but you know you are almost never going to get a trade worth anything because lets face it who is going to put in their good motors to go and claim somebody....noone. That is why i prefer NASCAR tracks, seems like they rarely have a claim... it might be in the rules but it rarely happens. At least i can come home from the track and have my own equipment and not have to worry about fixing up someone elses junk to run thenext week.

Cost comparison build 1 3500$ motor and run all season.
Build 1 $1500 motor... get claimed... build another 1500 motor....get claimed.... build another or blow one up...build another. Get the point say you get claimed at least 3 times and break 1 with a 1500 motor thats 6000 minus the 500 you get each claim and you are at $4500. Wouldnt it have been easier and cheaper, not even counting time saved, to build just one that will last all season.

[This message has been edited by dirtbuster (edited November 12, 2002).]

dirtracer14
Member
posted November 12, 2002 06:41 PM
Did i miss somthing? You said that you ran the layne trans to optimize your low buget motor? Thats is the main reason i would like to see em allow the brinn and bert trans!!! This is not a high $$ part in my eyes used for $600 to $800 compared to a 3 disk good clutch that you have to be real carefull with not to burn up disks in the pits....and checking them to make sure you can get more races out of em. I just see that the brinn and bert is a easy maintanece trans and allow less rotating weight allow the guy with smaller motor to use more without spending alot more on his motor.....


dirtbuster
Member
posted November 12, 2002 06:54 PM
jammin,
You came alot closer than what i thought you would, but you still missed a price for a block, crank, oil pump, oil pan.

You never mentioned how many you break or build a year?

I guess to each his own but when we started in the modifed class i took it from what it is named(modified) that it wasnt necessary to use all stock parts. We use modified parts and better than stock quality because we dont want to have to be fixing broken motors, trannys, gears, whatever. We think this time is better spent on setup which actually helps win races. This applies backto the original subject about trannies. We like the better quality offered in the aftermarket because it gives us a little more peace of mind.

If you think there needs to be a class for the economy racer then why cant there be a class for those who want to put more into it. In the end i wish people who want to run on a tighter budget would choose to do so at the appropriate tracks. If a track already is setup and going dont try to come in and change everything to suit your needs. I will admit that some at our track may spend a little too much but it is their choice and everything they do is legal. What i hate is when people come in and say it needs to be more like IMCA,more claiming, etc. WEll if they want to race IMCA go to the local IMCA track that runs the same night. Noone forces them to come to our track. Most of the guys are there because they dont like IMCA and if the track went IMCa most of them would leave. Hint: to the promoter!

Anyway enough rambling.. its just something that irritates me and I apologize for getting off the original topic.

[This message has been edited by dirtbuster (edited November 12, 2002).]

dirtbuster
Member
posted November 12, 2002 07:01 PM
dirtracer14,

I am glad someone sees the LAyne the same way i do... way overpriced. When you can get a used BRinn like you say and still have less parts to mess with and worry about every week. And yes they are very low maintenance. Change oil once in awhile and grease the tailshaft bearing weekly and thats it.

jammin
Administrator
posted November 12, 2002 07:36 PM
Apples and Oranges guys.


jammin
Administrator
posted November 12, 2002 07:38 PM
There is another class for those that want to put more into it 14....it is called Late Model.


outlawstock17
Member
posted November 12, 2002 07:55 PM
i've been listening to you guys go back and forth about engine costs. IMCA's claim DOESN'T keep engine costs down. it never has and it never will. the guys with deep pockets will build killer engines to run up front. if they get claimed, they'll be back next week with another bullet. how does this keep costs down when the front runners have 10 or more engines ready to rock your world?

if you want to run up front, you have to spend the dough. you're not going to outrun johnny saathoff or the other big dogs with a $1000 engine. a good balance job alone is $150. ask the 2002 champ how much he spent on his engine program and how many were lost in claims.........the claim is for IMCA, not the racers. it cuts out engine tech and caters to the guys with the big bucks.

racing is fueled by money..........it's just the way it is.

[This message has been edited by outlawstock17 (edited November 12, 2002).]

PAUL BOUWMAN
Member
posted November 12, 2002 08:16 PM
this was my fist year in mods and i chose to run a bert for the dependability
and it cost about the same as a triple disc setup or a track glide so i went that way
but i feel that no matter how much you spend on trannies or motors or whatever the main limiting factor in the mod class is the 8", hard, tire we use


outlawstock17
Member
posted November 12, 2002 08:44 PM
jammin,

just read your engine parts list and machining info. don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking your engine program, but that sounds like a grenade to me. no balancing? pinned studs? stock used valves?

i know you're chassis savvy, but you just can't do it all with the chassis. it's a tough road to hoe when you're down 100+HP and the other guy has his chassis working too along with a balanced, 6" rod 377 or 400 and dart heads turning 7800+ rpm's.

dirtracer14
Member
posted November 12, 2002 09:10 PM
Jammin:

Now just a sec here the trans that you are running(to help get the max out of your motor) is not a high dollor peice? What is the diff?? I see the pot calling the kettle black here....I dont send alot of $$ on motors i like to spend it on things that will be on my car for a few years that will help keep the car on the track. Why are you not running the glide this year?? You wanted to not have to worry about breaking them...we all know how it stinks to not finish a race from breakage.....and if i could run a bert or brinn that would make me real happy just for the fact of not having to worry about the trans ...at all. With my race program i try to get things on my car that are troble free so that i can spend more time on setup and normal maintenace....not replacing broke parts from the night befor(most of the time replace with a few choice words about the part that broke). As for the Lm comment i do think that there are alot other things that could be looked at in cutting cost and keeping things on a somewhat level feild!!

old racer
Member
posted November 12, 2002 09:22 PM
Paul Bouwman seems to have the key to all of this discussion in my opinion. We run on a VERY competitive 3/8 mile IMCA track and have about $2800 in our flat-top 400 that we turn 6400 rpm’s on average. Many guys spend close to 5 digits on their motors but there is hardly EVER any claiming going on because these guys just CAN’T hook up that extra money on these tires. A “break-away” win is very rare at this track. If someone comes in with a monster motor that is slipping all around the track and only makes up their time down the straight will, and has, been claimed. I would like to see IMCA allow the bert/brinns next season just for the fact that they ARE reliable and stable enough to race (making it cheaper in the long run). BUT, it seems to me no mater if you have the $10K motor or bert or whatever, you really do have to deal with the all important tire. I may be on my own on this one, but I really do appreciate these tires. It seems to allow the low budget teams to remain competitive and most importantly HAVE FUN!

I like mostly everything about IMCA. I would absolutely HATE having to tear my engine or rear-end down after the race like I have seen them do at NASCAR tracks. We live about 2.5 hours away from the track we regularly run at, and tech such as this would make the trip just that much longer, taking the fun out of racing. If somebody wants to spend a ton of $$ on an engine and run for $400-$500, they obviously they love racing and can afford to do so, so I think it is their own fault if they get claimed since you really can run up front with a low budget engine and they know the consequences up front.

My long two cents…


tilley88
Member
posted November 12, 2002 11:34 PM
Wow, what a can of worms! I just found out the new track in my area is gonna allow the aforementioned Berts & Brinns in the IMCA mod class. So it looks like I'll get one. Will a steel blowproof bellhousing work with a Bert, or will I have to use a Bert bellhousing?


madmodshoe
Member
posted November 12, 2002 11:55 PM
Fellas, fellas!
The one thing that everyone is missing here is how much the industry has changed. There has been an "industrial revolution" in the racing industry in the last ten years. ten years ago if you wanted a part or a chassis there were only a handfull of distributors that could take care of your every need. There are more racing parts shop than racers in some areas!lol
As nascar has grown it has brought with it many fans who want to race themselves. Many new comers who had not been interested in motorsports before 1990. Many parents with aspirations of their child being the next Jeff Gordon or Tony Stewart. Many capitalits who have found that alot of racers will always rush out and buy the latest "trick" part. A helluva lot of new racing tech that allows racers to learn on the internet vs. learning through seat time. Way to many promoters who get into the business for financial gain rather than love of the sport. Ask any old time racer who raced in the 70's and 80's and they will tell you that racing was much more fun back then. The weekly winners share in the 70's averaged 500.00 for a late model. What is now? About the same! The only difference is that it didn't take a $40,000 unit to win that purse.
The main argument is MONEY! It used to be not so long ago that a crafty racer with some knowlegde and hard work could cleen sweep every night. Now the guy with money and a little bit of talent sweeps every night. MONEY!
I am not saying this good or bad, just that the nature of our sport has changed. That is hard to swallow for racers that grew up around the track and watched some really talented drivers do some pretty amazing stuff with nothin'.
racing is no longer harder work in the shop, but harder work knocking on doors!
I always think I am right, even when I am wrong.


HRT187
Member
posted November 12, 2002 11:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dirtracer14:
Did i miss somthing? You said that you ran the layne trans to optimize your low buget motor? Thats is the main reason i would like to see em allow the brinn and bert trans!!! This is not a high $$ part in my eyes used for $600 to $800 compared to a 3 disk good clutch that you have to be real carefull with not to burn up disks in the pits....and checking them to make sure you can get more races out of em. I just see that the brinn and bert is a easy maintanece trans and allow less rotating weight allow the guy with smaller motor to use more without spending alot more on his motor.....


I dunno about what clutches you have but my 2 quarter masters are 3 and 5 years old and they work great. Only replaced plates once in each, and the old ones weren't bad.

Never broken a rear end or a trans since I've been running race prepped lightened 4 speeds.

My only complaint is that 9" gears are expensive, harder to travel with, and harder to change than a quick change. Not to mention if you want to use a gold trak you need as many as you need gears, where in a quick change you only need 1 and maybe a backup.


Yeah it's almost a late model, but if the cost is cheaper in the end, wouldn't that make up for a lower purse? I've always liked that in a mod people with plain engines can run with guys that have some serious smoke. Engines are still where the most unrecoverable losses are if you ask me... and on an 8" tire who can hook all that power anyhow?


The only other thing I have against racing gears is that they aren't within all rules. I want to run at any track I can drive too, and if I can't run a quick change there I guess I won't buy one.


JasonBrock
unregistered
posted November 13, 2002 05:22 AM           
Back to lil' ole me. Should I buy a bert and only race at my primary track. Or sacrifice performance at my primary track for the ability to run 4 or 5 different tracks??


old racer
Member
posted November 13, 2002 07:12 AM
Ya, I'm from Iowa here and race at least 3 nites a week and at least 3 different tracks a season, have been doing that for 15 yrs. now in mods, yes ,we used to be IMCA ,now we arent. is that a good thing?...i dont know, but i do know this.....if you are going to race in this area you will have to spend the money to be competetive or just flat out give it up! there also is the newly formed 'b-mod class' here for those who dont want to run with the so called high dollar cars, but as a guy who owned and operated one of each of those cars last 2 seasons, i can speak from experience here. it can be just as expensive and time consuming to be competeive in either class. the b-mod class here is growing and there are some drivers in it that are just as good as the a-mod guys, but they are racing for less money, not because they want to...............but because of economics forcing that. well ive rambled on enuff here.. my vote is for the berts and brinns....they are cheaper and easier in the long run. they are the future in racing.......my 02 cents , ford5


dirtbuster
Member
posted November 13, 2002 10:00 AM
dluna,
Personally i like the way you spoke about NASCAR doing more tech and less claiming. I would rather do that and take home my own motor every week not someone elses. Thats why i prefer NASCAR over IMCA. We run NASCAR every week and have never had to do more than pull our distributor or center section on rearend etc. The rules say no aluminum heads or roller cams (at our track) so what more is there to check inside the motor. everything else is legal. As long as you have rules and enforce them doesnt that level the field.

As i read in another thread claiming will never keep the cost down because you will always have your Logues, Saathoffs, Nobles, etc with big sponsors that have dozens of engines ready to go. So what if they get claimed they have plenty more and I would bet they are not 1000-1500$ motors either. Most guys dont have sponsors like that.

dirtbuster
Member
posted November 13, 2002 10:06 AM
jasonbrock

To answer your question. My suggestion would be to find out whether or not the Brinn is allowed at the tracks you want to run. If it is I would definitely go for it. If not I guess you will have to decide which tracks you would rather compete at and what kind of tranny is legal and go from there. There are rumors IMCA will allow Brinns next year but it will never happen in my opinion. That would make too much sense for them.

jammin
Administrator
posted November 13, 2002 10:13 AM
Dirt, why don't you have anything in your profile?

jammin


dirtbuster
Member
posted November 13, 2002 10:34 AM
jammin,
good question, i thought there was at one time. I guess I need to look into that.


zeroracing
Member
posted November 13, 2002 12:53 PM
Called Rex Merritt today.....talked to him...he has both a Layne and a Brinn. Says he gets 300 more rpms out of the Layne from the lack of drag and rotational weight...also stated, for the price, it is worth the difference......There is your difference...no more speculating. There is your answer.

jammin

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited November 13, 2002).]

dirtbuster
Member
posted November 13, 2002 02:06 PM
jammin,
Is that with the same motor on the same track on the same night with the same gears, tires etc. See what i am getting at. We may run 200rpms slower in the same night going from the heat to a feature and not change a thing the track just changes. Unless everything is kept exactly the same how does he know the extra rpms are due to the transmission.

Just because Rex Merrit had that experience doesnt mean everyone will so that doesnt prove that the Layne is better than the Brinn just because he says so.

[This message has been edited by dirtbuster (edited November 13, 2002).]