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Author Topic:   insurance
Gene
Member
posted April 16, 2001 06:41 PM
I'd like to hear from fellow racers about this. Even hear from an insurance underwriter if possible. At Limaland's test and tune day, a mod driver had the driveshaft
come into the cockpit and about rip his leg off. This guy is still in the hospitle (2 weeks now). Limaland says they are not going to cover his medical bills. I'm not in on
all the inside news about this, but on the surface I think its really scary to have promotors operate like this. What is the sheet really telling us that we must sign? And shouldnt tracks have its insurance information there for us to see? I'd sure like to know the basic ammounts of coverage we have, or dont have!


jammin
Administrator
posted April 16, 2001 09:41 PM
Well...the sheets that you sign are waivers. They are designed to keep the track from getting into a problem when something happens like this. When you sign the sheet, it basically states that you are on your own. For this reason, it is especially necessary to run with a sanctioning organization. Most organizations have some type of insurance specifically for the drivers. Just for instance, I believe that IMCA's insurance poilicy for each driver is 50,000 if they are in a wreck and get hurt. If you will take a look at this, you will see that the claim is not the thing to be afraid of, it is the actual waiver sheets. Most tracks have their insurance just in case a car comes into the stands or something and kills the spectators. The spectators dont have to sign a waiver...think about it. This means that the driver's lives are basically at stake. If you dont take care of these issues, you can be stuck with a hefty doctor bill if something were to happen. The reasons that some people do not like the sanctions are some times less important than what the sanctioning organizations can provide in safety for the drivers.


just something to think about.

jammin


CUSTOMPERFORMANCE
Member
posted April 16, 2001 10:16 PM
JAMMIN, YOU COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER!!!
BUT ALSO EVEN AS A DRIVER YOU CAN TAKE THE WAIVER TO COURT FOR THE DAMAGES AND CHALLENGE IT. I BELEIVE IT HAS BEEN DONE. THAT IS ALSO WHY THE TRACKS, OR MOST TRACKS/SANCTIONING BODIES CARRY THE INSURANCE. IT IS TO PROTECT MAINLY THE SPECTATORS AND THE DRIVERS IF IT SHOULD BE TAKEN TO COURT


awkwardjeff
Member
posted April 16, 2001 11:44 PM
I'm sure Limaland runs under a sanctioning body on race night........I'm not sure as to which one though......I think the track is not covering the medical because they weren't racing, so the santioning bodies insurance won't cover the loss........
I believe most tracks out there don't pay for the insurance on a test and tune day....
I'm not a legal expert, But I would think this driver could file a suit to recover medical bills.......nothing more, nothing less.
The track left themselves exposed.......it was their gamble that they would not need medical insurance on a test and tune day....they lost, a driver was hurt and they should have had medical insurance.......
Our local track pays $1700 dollars a night for a regular show, lates, mods, super stock, street stock.........this covers drivers medical and spectators completely........I'm not sure of the limit. I would think for a test and tune day the track could by this insurance reasonable...........but maybe not cost effective .......
For the test and tune day did you pay to get into the pits? If the answer is yes then you should expect the same coverage you would get on a normal night of racing.
I would be getting some legal help on this if I was to be hurt at the track and my medical wasn't covered........
Jeff

[This message has been edited by awkwardjeff (edited April 17, 2001).]

fury
Member
posted April 17, 2001 09:46 AM
Mod78, I won't argue with your thoughts, I will be respectful of your position. I just need you to answer a few questions to help ME understand your thought prosess.
Why do you pay to get in at the back gate?
Do you keep a great medical policy on yourself? Do you also have a plan that will cover your lost wages in the event of a racing accident?
I don't believe the track should pay for anything OTHER than medical...........tracks tell us every time the back gate fee goes up that it's due to the cost of insurance going up..........ALL santioning bodies have insurance to cover drivers, this also comes from the lisence you buy to race with that santioning body...............
I don't believe a person should file a law suit to recover lost wages, pain and suffering, or any other type of loss.......but I also think that by them taking money at the back gate buys us racers some medical insurance. Some times not enough, and each racer should look into the amount of coverage.


x13jc
Member
posted April 18, 2001 07:29 AM
Well, here are my 2 cents, and take them as my opinion, and advise.
Is your racing team incorporated? if not, why not? do you realize how many benefits there are to being incorporated? one is workmans comp. The driver could be filing a claim right now, as long as he was an employee, and workman's comp would be paying the medical bills, along with his wages... I am a business owner, driver, etc...
My point is, if you expect others to be responsible for your actions, then what are you responsible for? In other words, never depend on others to take care of what you should, or could have prevented.

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RACERX


bkap
Member
posted April 18, 2001 10:04 AM
Here's my nickel's worth (inflation, you know) :

I appreciate your thoughts on running a racing operation like a business but it seems that incorporating one's racing team adds a ton of work to the process. In my experience, the care and feeding of a worker's comp program is a difficult and time consuming project, especially if you don't have someone on staff to administer it.

And there is cost involved, at one level or another. Also, if you put your racing operation under another corporate umbrella, you create some potentially serious exposure for the existing business.

x13jc
Member
posted April 18, 2001 03:48 PM
I see your point, but here is another for you to ponder on, let's say you are driving home with your race car. You hit someone and kill them (God forbid), who is being sued? You and your family, the insurance company, and anyone else.
My point, you shelter your assests through a corporation. A friend of mine (who is a Quadzillionaire) helped us set everything up, didn't charge us anything. Everything he owns including his home, shops, vehicles, etc.... are all corporations. Our attorney fees were only $500, but I look at it as insurance..
I am not rich, anyone who knows me, knows that. But I will not put my family through a lawsuit. And don't think you won't be sued.

Chow for now.

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RACERX


poboy2
Member
posted April 18, 2001 06:02 PM
What about ones health insurance, say throught their work? If I fall off my front porch and break my leg, then I pay a deductable and insurance pays the rest. So what if I brake my arm in a race car? Is that any different? They just asked me if I was a smoker... not a racer..lol Im one of those guys that doesn't really know the details about this sort of thing. So if anyone knows for sure, let us know.


bkap
Member
posted April 18, 2001 06:29 PM
Some health insurance policies exclude racing accidents. Check your policy.

for RacerX:
Just because everything you own is within a corporation, don't think the corporate shield can't be broken through. It's been done plenty of times. And although creating many seperate corporations for your assets probably does have some advantages, eventually the government wins when it comes to taxes. And if they can prove you're trying to hide assets, look out.

Be careful you're not building a house of cards.

MOD RACER#93
Member
posted April 18, 2001 07:13 PM
Most sactioning bodies insurance as well as some track insurance will only cover what your personal insurance does not cover.

With this being the case, at the first claim on your personal insurance the company will usually exclude you from any coverage in the future while racing (kinda stinks).
This is why the tracks insurance is so important.

With the pit prices as they are, the age old excuse is that insurance is up, we can't do this or we can't do that because of insurance, but when a claim arises WHERE IS THE INSURANCE?????.

Just my soap box

Thanks
The PEDDLER

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RACING IS A HOBBY
GO HAVE FUN

[This message has been edited by PEDDLER (edited April 18, 2001).]

awkwardjeff
Member
posted April 19, 2001 12:37 AM
I would just like to comment on the corporate thing..........It doesn't matter if you incorporate as a business, YOU will not be protected in the event of something YOU did............
Because you are the driver and owner......the owner would be protected in the corporate way but not the driver......so lets say on the way home from the track you are driving the tow rig, you fall asleep and kill another person. Do you think the family can't touch your personal stuff? THINK AGAIN. You are the driver and will be sued personaly, along with the corporation you formed to protect yourself.
Let's take the same example and change the driver of the tow rig to a friend. You would be protected, the corporation and the friend would end up paying big bucks..........
This is not to say that you don't have valid points........there are some good things that can come from being incorporated.....I just want you to understand that because you incorporate as a business that you personaly will still be sued. And can lose everything, unless like your friend the quadzillionare, you hide ALL personal assets in other corporations. See a person trying to sue you could not touch anything that corporation
"z" owns if you raced under corporation "x".
This is why people form many different corporation.........to shift assets, this is what protects assets........unless you put your house in a corporation anyone sueing you could get to that, and any other asset that is yours personaly.........this is why wealthy people form many different corporations.
Jeff


x13jc
Member
posted April 19, 2001 09:28 AM
We each enjoy racing for our own reasons. Mine is, I love to race, but I also like to run it as a business. I know the risks involved. We all are taking chances.
As a business owner of another type business, I can tell you that I will not sponsor a car unless you have liability insurance for me, the sponsor. Jammin can attest to the fact that I also have sponsored this site, the dirt forum.
I am not going to argue with anyone on this matter, I am merely stating my point.
And as always, have a great day!

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RACERX


Mod 78
Member
posted April 19, 2001 03:05 PM
Moving the thread to the top.