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Author Topic:   Powerglide...continued.
jammin
Administrator
posted February 27, 2001 11:19 AM
Post your messages on thmod3c
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 0 posted February 10, 2001 09:20 PM
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whats beening done to these power glides that allow you to NOT run a cut off valve or a foot peddel,no tork converter, its direct drive,i'v seen them them before you just bolt them in hook up cooler and race no valve or peddle...thanks in advance
[This message has been edited by mod3c (edited February 10, 2001).]

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mod3c
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 0 posted February 15, 2001 04:22 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by mod3c:
whats beening done to these power glides that allow you to NOT run a cut off valve or a foot peddel,no tork converter, its direct drive,i'v seen them them before you just bolt them in hook up cooler and race no valve or peddle...thanks in advance
[This message has been edited by mod3c (edited February 10, 2001).]


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is this quiston to hard or what ????
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jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 765 posted February 15, 2001 05:05 PM
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Mod....I know what your talking about, but I dont have an answer for ya. They will basically just ease off and then lock in when you get to a certain RPM....I talked to Steve Ward a while back..he ran one...said he liked it. I will ask him when I see him again.

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fury
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22 posted February 15, 2001 06:13 PM
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I may be wrong but I heard that the new Bushore works that way. All you gotta do is put it in gear and go.
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MOD RACER#93
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47 posted February 15, 2001 07:43 PM
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mod3c, I ran a glide setup like this for a while. I dont know what my transmission man did to it exactly, but the way it worked was, you put the car in low to sart moving. Once moving at a good speed, shift to drive. I ran the little pump drive kit from TCI. No peddles or valves. It worked ok.
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4ord
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 9 posted February 15, 2001 09:58 PM
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I ran one like this back in '97. Worked real slick. The guy that built it originated a lot of auto tranny technology...Steve Griner. www.griner-racing.com
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mod3c
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 0 posted February 17, 2001 06:21 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by 4ord:
I ran one like this back in '97. Worked real slick. The guy that built it originated a lot of auto tranny technology...Steve Griner. www.griner-racing.com
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now we are getting some where,i know of two places that sell them but i did not wont to pay out the wazooo for one [IMG]#http://www.thedirtforum.com/ubb/smilies/cwm35.gif[/IMG] #93 your right put it in low take off shift & go really simple i bet but you have to buy to find out ???

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fury
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22 posted February 17, 2001 09:06 PM
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I have been told it has something to do with drilling and working with valve body to make it work that way but your right you probably have to buy one to find out for sure
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MOD RACER#93
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47 posted February 17, 2001 11:12 PM
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Yea, I didn't ask what he did. Didn't care, cause it was cheap. I dont have the tranny anymore. Switched to a Brinn last year. Still have two stock car glides though, they use a converter and run off 1st gear.
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doowchuck
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20 posted February 18, 2001 08:46 AM
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Bleed holes are drilled to bleed off pressure untill rpm comes up making sufficent pressure to apply clutches.
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jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 765 posted February 18, 2001 10:07 AM
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I bet that is done on the first gear drum that moves the band over to apply pressure.....hmmm...I didnt even think about that.
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jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 765 posted February 18, 2001 07:00 PM
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I wonder what size holes you would need to drill in the servo to do this?
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bbracer17
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 56 posted February 18, 2001 07:43 PM
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I just bought one like this. I'll ask the guy that builds them and seeif he will tell me. I'll let you know.
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36k
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 36 posted February 18, 2001 08:10 PM
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Thier called internal relief trans,Drill 5/16 hole in 1st gear drum and it actually takes place of ball valve, just bleeds off till you get rolling and into second then everthing else works the same
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mod3c
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 0 posted February 19, 2001 09:43 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by 36k:
Thier called internal relief trans,Drill 5/16 hole in 1st gear drum and it actually takes place of ball valve, just bleeds off till you get rolling and into second then everthing else works the same
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bbracer17 cool let us know if you can...36k thanks your a saint

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quickrick01
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 4 posted February 20, 2001 10:51 PM
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Is the hole drilled in the low-rev. piston or in the low band servo piston?
A hole in low-rev piston would bleed off psi in low and rev. , and a hole in the low servo would bleed 1st only.
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doowchuck
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20 posted February 21, 2001 04:16 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by quickrick01:
Is the hole drilled in the low-rev. piston or in the low band servo piston?
A hole in low-rev piston would bleed off psi in low and rev. , and a hole in the low servo would bleed 1st only.


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I believe it is the low-reverse piston. It is the big piston, about 6" diameter. I think that the 5/16 hole that was suggested earlier is way big. I think that mine is .100" Hope this helps.
john

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quickrick01
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 4 posted February 21, 2001 06:46 PM
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What if you plumbed into the psi tap for low-rev on the side of the case and returned the fluid to the sump. in the line you could have a pill like in a fuel inj setup
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mod3c
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 0 posted February 22, 2001 02:32 PM
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keep thoes ideas coming were going to get it pretty soon thanks
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MOD RACER#93
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47 posted February 22, 2001 06:47 PM
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I know im gonna catch flack for writing this, but what the h&ll, it's how I feel. What exactly are ya trying to get????? Are you all trying to put a guy that does this stuff on the side out of business or sumthing???? Or mabey yall want to start building tranny's on the side. The person (racer) that built my trans worked at a tranny shop during day and did this on side for a little extra cash. Being an independent business man myself, I didnt want to try to copy what he had done. I know if I tried I could have probably done the work myself, heck the glide is one of the most simplist tranny's out there. Instead I chose to help my fellow independant businessman/racer. Im not trying to P*SS anyone off here, im just saying yall appear to be trying to expose some LITTLE tricks that some folks use to make a LITTLE extra cash.

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36k
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 36 posted February 22, 2001 09:08 PM
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This is not anything new, I know guys in my area that have been doing this for years, If a guy has the cash he can have one built, but I know people in my area, in stcks& mods who have less than $300 in there glides and are seveal seasons old.
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jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 765 posted February 22, 2001 09:35 PM
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Mod....we are not trying to anything like that....I would like to know because I have built my own glides for the last several years and want to learn more as I am sure other racers are doing in here...that is what this is about, not taking something from someone. I bet money that if you talk to 10 different tranny builders that did this, you would get 10 different answers anyway on how to go about it. I think it is the only way to get ahead in our high dollar sport.....besides, if you build your own tranny, that is money that you can put elsewhere in your car.......Lets face it...it ain't hard to rebuild one of these trannies..........
By the way, this is a tech forum.

jammin


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fury
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22 posted February 22, 2001 10:15 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by MOD RACER#93:
I know im gonna catch flack for writing this, but what the h&ll, it's how I feel. What exactly are ya trying to get????? Are you all trying to put a guy that does this stuff on the side out of business or sumthing???? Or mabey yall want to start building tranny's on the side. The person (racer) that built my trans worked at a tranny shop during day and did this on side for a little extra cash. Being an independent business man myself, I didnt want to try to copy what he had done. I know if I tried I could have probably done the work myself, heck the glide is one of the most simplist tranny's out there. Instead I chose to help my fellow independant businessman/racer. Im not trying to P*SS anyone off here, im just saying yall appear to be trying to expose some LITTLE tricks that some folks use to make a LITTLE extra cash.

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Mod93 while your certainly entitled to your opinion. I have to disagree. I dont think anyone here is trying to put anyone out of buisness. We are all in the racing buisness as racers, and most have little or no sponsors including myself i have none.

Its true the powerglide is an easy trans to build and the trick that we are all missing here does not seem so difficult so why should we have to pay 300 to 500 dollars for this service when a guy can do it at home for much less ?

For many racers that could be the difference in price would easily provide them with the much needed parts they need to continue racing.

Mod 93 if I used your theory I would have to pay a shop to do the oiling tricks that I do to my motors, when currently it cost me about $60 dollars in parts and my time. Should I feel bad for not going to my local buisness man to have him do it ? Should I feel bad about passing that info along to others so they can do it to no way.

Technology should not stay secret. We are not revealing CIA secrets here.

Good Luck this season.

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quickrick01
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 4 posted February 22, 2001 10:51 PM
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I hope we are over all that & on with the sharing of info. I have been building racing powerglides since 1979, all in my garage & all for the same two people.
The first one was built with a Winters kit & worked very good. We would like to drop about 40 lbs of hoses and valve and make the car look cleaner. That is the reason for my questions. My idea for a line from the psi tap for low-rev to the sump will be tried and i will report back.
I may add a solinoid in the line to stop the bleed for pace laps
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mod3c
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 0 posted February 24, 2001 02:22 PM
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whew..opened up a can of worms... if all it caust was 50 bucks i would gladly pay to get it done... but the only place i can find is to buy a new glide at 700 bucks + tax cant buy that when we have thes forums for teck info...like jam said thes it a tech forum...
[This message has been edited by jammin (edited February 24, 2001).]

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fury
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22 posted February 24, 2001 05:05 PM
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I agree mod3c, I know a couple of places that will sell the complete trans with the set up we are discussing for $600 total. But your are correct thanks to the tech forum I may not have to spend that money on the glide. I can use it for other parts and needs.
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MOD RACER#93
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47 posted February 24, 2001 08:53 PM
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Sorry, but got yalls attention didnt I? lol? Anyway, I was not aware that it was costing 600+ dollars to fix a tranny now....This guy did mine for less than a 100 bucks...If I still had the thing I would go look at it, but when i switched to brinn, I sold it. It was blowed up...Yes I cannot see paying over 100 dollars for this work to be done. After all the glide is the simplist auto trans around...Give me a couple days, mabey I can come up with something...
Mod3c, You didnt open up a can of worms, I did. I was asking for it....

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jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 765 posted February 25, 2001 12:10 AM
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I got into a situation one year where I broke(or thought I broke) a tranny at the track. I carried a spare with me that was basically a stock tranny without a valve or anything to releave any low end. I basically just had to rev it up and throw it into gear. It spun the tires a little and was a little hard on the low gear band, but it worked fine. So, it is my thought that all that needs to be done to one is to get it rolling is to limit the pressure on the low servo. However you can do this(valvebody, valve or whatever) it will work fine, because everything else will work the same from what I saw. My thought is, if you put a check valve in the servo, that will allow the servo bleed from the outside(low) to the inside(high), then it will allow you to idle and then apply pressure slowly to the servo as the rpm's come up on the main line. The reason that you have to use a check valve...is that when the tranny goes into high gear, the servo is pushed back by the line pressure that governs the clutch pressure on the high gear pack. If you didnt use the check valve, the high pressure on the high clutch pack would be reduced and just roast the clutches. Here is a picture of what I am talking about....maybe you will see what I mean.


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doowchuck
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20 posted February 25, 2001 02:09 PM
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It is too bad that everyone is chasing their tail and trying to reinvent the wheel on this. As I said in an earlier reply, all that is required is the .100 hole in the low-reverse piston.
These transmissions work super, no special valves or complicated hardware. Just put in low and step on the gas. No jerking or stalling, just a smooth take off.
john
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mod3c
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 0 posted February 25, 2001 03:38 PM
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john does it mater where you drill the .100 hole in the piston...thanks cliff
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jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 765 posted February 25, 2001 03:47 PM
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I am still trying to figure out what the low/reverse piston is.....is the servo what your talking about?
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MOD RACER#93
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 47 posted February 25, 2001 05:58 PM
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Jammin what u described is exactly what the guy did to my tranny, i believe. Simply limit some pressure so you can put it in first to get rolling. Once rolling you shift into drive...locking up clutch pack...It works good...Im sure the trannies that are costing $600 dollars or more have valves that require pedals, and special clutches and possibly stronger input shafts...Mine was basically stock exept for the small modification done to limit or bypass some pressure, to get the car moving without tearing stuff up...Oh wait he did say something about a drum or sumthing, i think he used a stronger drum or hub...and an aftermarket shift lever...
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quickrick01
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 4 posted February 25, 2001 11:34 PM
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I am sorry about the low-rev references in my earlier posts TOO MANY TURBO 350'S I GUESS.
OK Jammin you have a book so look at the exploded view, the rev. piston is in the bottom of the case. It is the first part to go in the case. It is the piston that applies the clutches in the bottom of the case.
In rev this clutch applies and holds the ring gear to give you rev.
In the Winters kit you were instructed to drill a .125 hole in the rev piston to give lube and cooling oil to the clutch as you closed the valve. If you wanted to bypass enough oil to dump rev at idle I think it would take about a .300 or bigger hole.
One way to dump low is to use the P.S.I. tap on the servo cover you may need to drill and tap to 1/4 or 3/8 pipe to dump enough oil to slip low at idle, add a 90 fitting and route to the case to return the oil to the sump.

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jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 765 posted February 26, 2001 12:44 AM
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Another Idea I had was to fix the inside of the fitting that was to be used in the servo cover with a carb jet that you could change and manipulate the actual flow with and then you could tailor it to what the car needs...???? This way you can change the amount of flow needed.
??What do you think?

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jammin
Dirt Administrator

Total posts: 765 posted February 27, 2001 03:16 AM
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Think it is a good idea?
is one...

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited February 27, 2001).]

quickrick01
Member
posted February 27, 2001 03:48 PM
I think a carb jet will be too small. It will take at least 1/4-5/16 hole to bypass enough oil. Drill & Tap the psi tap hole that is already 1/8th pipe in the servo cover, open it up to 3/8 or 1/2 pipe if it is too much you can bush it down a size to make the band apply when you want it to.
Then just run a line from that fitting to the case to return the bypassed oil to the sump.
Thoughts?

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jammin
Administrator
posted February 27, 2001 04:03 PM
Well...you wont be able to make it as big as the inlet of the mainline hole. If you make it that big, it will flow out as much as comes in. It will take a hole smaller than that. I am not sure how fast the pressure comes up from idle to max. I guess it would depend on that.



quickrick01
Member
posted February 27, 2001 06:35 PM
Jammim -, you may be right but I though it would make more sense to drill once and bush down if nessasary. A brass 90 will have a restriction also.
Servo covers are easy to find!

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jammin
Administrator
posted February 27, 2001 06:43 PM
Well...if the hole was smaller than the main, then it would bleed off until pressure is built up enough? to where it would start applying the servo. I dont know how big it needs to be...


doowchuck
Member
posted February 27, 2001 08:49 PM
Just totally amazing!


jammin
Administrator
posted February 27, 2001 09:24 PM
doow, are we talking about drilling in the same part....from what your saying and what I am reading, we are not...


doowchuck
Member
posted February 28, 2001 05:52 PM
Jammin, I am talking about drilling a hole .100 Dia. in the rear clutch piston.
John


jammin
Administrator
posted February 28, 2001 06:41 PM
doow, can you explain why it works? Or what it does? I thought the reverse side was different as far as mainline pressure and was seperate from the low band.


quickrick01
Member
posted March 01, 2001 03:43 PM
A .100 hole in the rev. piston will not relieve enough oil volume to slip rev at idle. I have drilled a 1/8th inch (.125) hole in the rev pistons of the p/g I have built for lube & cooling oil for the rev clutches when you close the valve in rev.
Nothing that you do to the rev piston will effect low gear which is applied by the servo on the right side of the case (cast iron cover).

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jammin
Administrator
posted March 03, 2001 10:33 PM
Ok....I worked hard on this today...i wanted to let you guys know what I found. The inlet hole in to the reverse section under the piston is a .125 hole. This means that a .100 hole(like doow said) should work to dump it. I would drill it toward the center of the piston so that it will drain on the clutches to cool them adequately. I checked the mainline into the servo....it is .225 large. I was taking a look at my spec drawings and it showed that when you are in high gear that some of the main line pressure will flush back down behind the servo to push it out and help the spring. Well....if you drill a hole in the servo itself..your going to lose mainline pressure to your high gear clutchpack, so this means you would probably have some premature wear because of it. So I took a look at another option.....What I am going to do is drill a .175-.200 hole in from the bottom of the servo housing. What this will do is dump on the low band and also allow the main pressure to stay up in high gear and keep it working normally. If you drill toward the outside, perpendicular to the mainline input, then the servo will never cover it. When you do this, your dumping directly back into the pan, and you wont have to go out thru the servo plate and back into the tranny again. I hope this helps someone...I think I have it figured out pretty well...and I am gonna work on getting this one back together like this...i will keep you informed on the output.

jammin

quickrick01
Member
posted March 07, 2001 12:02 AM
Jammin, is your trans together? I am building ours friday with .100 hole in rev piston & a hole in low servo bore as you said. Do you know what size tap is needed to install a holley jet (as you suggested) in the servo hole? When I find the right size hole I can build the next one without a jet. Hopefully by monday we will know how it works. The rev piston hole will be harder to adj, so if you have tested yours let us know.
Rick

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mod3c
Member
posted March 07, 2001 02:54 AM
Quick....I am not going to use the jet...I have talked to a buddy at TCI that works in their tech department and he stated that these would work fine. I am inserting a hole in the outter bore of the tranny will be a 3/16 and the rear piston will have a hole in it that is 3/32....the hole in the rear piston will be on the outer part of the piston to oil the clutches somewhat to keep them cool. He also stated that a cooler is not necessary on these, so just loop the cooler lines so there wont be any pressure on the pump gears. If you use these, you should not need a carb jet.


jammin


quickrick01
Member
posted March 15, 2001 03:30 PM
We built our P/G with a 3/32 hole in the rev piston and a 3/16 hole in the low servo bore.
The results were, rev is still too tight and no low gear at all.
I am building the next one with 1/8 hole in rev piston to soften the engaugement of rev.
I pluged the 3/16 hole in the low servo bore with a 1/8 pipe plug and drilled a 3/32 hole in it. This made low too tight so the right size will be somewhere between 3/32 and 3/16 , maybe 1/8 also.
I will keep you posted as we will race on March 23 & 24
Rick

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jammin
Administrator
posted March 15, 2001 03:46 PM
did you adjust the low band after you set it up quick? The band will have to be adjusted after it is set up and running.



quickrick01
Member
posted March 15, 2001 06:20 PM
Yep 40 inch-pounds and back-off 4 turns.
We are trying 7/64th hole tonight in low servo bore of case

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jammin
Administrator
posted March 15, 2001 08:11 PM
hmmm....I wonder if the spring on the servo piston is why it is doing that....I guess it makes sense. That means it will need more pressure(smaller hole) to get the job done.

On the rear piston...the inlet is .125.....if you go as large or larger than that, wont you just bleed it all off?



quickrick01
Member
posted March 16, 2001 12:53 PM
We went with a 7/64th hole in the low servo. It pulls the engine down when you stop so you need to get it out of gear fairly fast so you won't burn up the band.
I think it will be better when the trans is up to temp.
You can't idle in low gear but i don't think that was the plan, just wanted to be able to take off from a stop without a valve or a pedal!
We are leaving rev fairly solid because you can toggle between rev and neutral to back-up and still be smooth.
Rick


quickrick01
Member
posted March 16, 2001 01:10 PM
Jammin, on the rev piston, the trans case i used had the feed hole for rev smaller than .125 so i drilled it out to .125 in the back of the case then i drilled the piston to 3/32 and it is still very tight (spins the tires) going into rev.If you wanted it softer 7/64th would be close.
P.S. I found 4340 input shafts for $72 and they are unifit for both gear sets.
Let me know if it is ok to post info.

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jammin
Administrator
posted March 16, 2001 01:23 PM
So, I guess we are in the neighborhood then.
Go ahead and post any info you would like Rick.

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited March 16, 2001).]

jammin
Administrator
posted March 16, 2001 01:28 PM
Rick, you might try to loosen the band up just a little to make it idle....if you do that....the pressure will still work, but it shouldnt pull the motor down because the servo is working against that spring.

Just a thought.

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited March 16, 2001).]

jammin
Administrator
posted March 21, 2001 06:35 PM
Rick, was your setup with a stock vavlebody? line pressure?

jammin

quickrick01
Member
posted March 28, 2001 06:48 PM
The valve body was stock with the shift valve locked in the shift position and the mod valve locked all the way in. The p.s.i. reg. spring is stock I don't see any need to rob any horsepower for pressure we don't need.
We raced fri. night and won our heat. The trans worked great but the mains were rained out sat.
I will send some pictures of what i did so they can be posted

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wheels13
Member
posted April 03, 2001 09:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by quickrick01:
The valve body was stock with the shift valve locked in the shift position and the mod valve locked all the way in. The p.s.i. reg. spring is stock I don't see any need to rob any horsepower for pressure we don't need.
We raced fri. night and won our heat. The trans worked great but the mains were rained out sat.
I will send some pictures of what i did so they can be posted


I am extremely interested in the follow-up on this topic. I have a couple of glides but I hate the valve. What is the latest and greatest guys? Thanks



jammin
Administrator
posted April 03, 2001 09:12 AM
So, are we still at a 7/64 in the low servo still and a 7/64 in the rear piston?



REDNECKL64
Member
posted April 03, 2001 08:52 PM
OK, Here's the dum question for the day.Will this type of 'Glide work in a 3200 lbs car?I understand modifieds are light than snot but will a heavyer car make the trans slip to much.If I us a hollow converter most people won't know.It aint cheating until you get caught!



quickrick01
Member
posted April 03, 2001 11:42 PM
yes 7/64 on both holes and yes it will move a 3200 lbs car but it won't idle in gear like you think. You need to put it in gear and GO, it just cushions the engaugement.

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quickrick01
Member
posted April 03, 2001 11:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by quickrick01:
yes 7/64 on both holes and yes it will move a 3200 lbs car but it won't idle in gear like you think. You need to put it in gear and GO, it just cushions the engaugement.


2nd at Petaluma Ca. March31
1st in fast heat at Chico before rain-out

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jammin
Administrator
posted April 04, 2001 09:57 AM
waiting on rebuild kit.....I am going to try a 1/8 in the low bore and a 7/64 in the rear and I will let everyone know how it works.