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Author Topic:   metric ball joints
longracing25
Member
posted August 24, 2002 04:17 AM
Hey guys, got a question....i have a metric i'm building, does it make a differance putting a TALLER UPPER ball joint on the rf, and NOT a taller bottom one on? Do you need both?


blanep
Member
posted August 25, 2002 05:22 PM
As far as I know it will work fine except you will obviously only be getting half of the potential increase in terms of effective spindle length. With stock length ball joints your front roll center is roughly 1" below ground level and with the longer ball joints on both upper and lower arms it will be roughly 3-4" above ground level. By only using a longer upper or only a longer lower then you should theoretically fall somewhere in between. But as far as any problems associated with only running 1 longer ball joint per side, I can't think of any.


blanep
Member
posted August 25, 2002 05:34 PM
Now that I re-read your post I noticed you only mentioned the RF. I would highly recommend if you use a taller ball joint on the upper RF that you do the same on the upper LF. If you only do this on one side it's gonna change where your roll center lies on the vertical center line of the car. Without drawing it out I can't say for sure, but I think it would move the roll center towards the passengers side of the car. This may or may not be desireable depending on many different factors, but I always like keeping the front end as symmetrical as possible, especially the angles of the front a-arms.


longracing25
Member
posted August 26, 2002 04:13 AM
Oh...i thought you just put the taller joints on the right front to help. So i should put tall uppers on both sides?


longracing25
Member
posted August 26, 2002 04:25 AM
Hello...is this post WORKING.....i've put several on here, and none are showing up!


blanep
Member
posted August 26, 2002 12:35 PM
I personally think that you'd be doing more harm than good by just doing it to one side but like I said before, what works for one car not always works for another.


longracing25
Member
posted August 27, 2002 12:10 PM
I just bought an AFCO "taller" upper ball joint for my 79 monte.....popped the stock one out, and realized this new doesn't fit right(and the bolts don't line up)) the shop said i may need to drill a few new holes. Is this what i'm supposed to do? I also noticed that there is a TALLER lower ball joint for METRICS. Do i get the taller bottom, and run a stock one on top....or drill? thanks, guys!


blanep
Member
posted August 27, 2002 02:31 PM
Not only will you need to drill some new holes for the top one, but you will also need to enlarge the main hole for the ball joint itself. On mine I elongate the hole towards the outside of the arm as well as towards the rear of the arm. This gives you a little more clearance in the area where the arm makes it's upward rise by the ball joint. If you simply make the hole larger all the way around you're gonna have clearance problems between this rise and the bolting flange of the ball joint. Another thing to consider doing is to place a washer or two on the two bolts closest to the engine, placing them between the ball joint flange and the a-arm. These washers simply shim the ball joint into a more vertical position throughout the arms movement range thereby eliminating some of the possible bind. At the same time these two shims also gain you just a little bit more clearance in that rise area of the arm. Yeah, it's all a little bit of a hassle but it's well worth it imho.

The bottom one is much easier as you just slip it right in and tack weld it in a couple spots. I stress the word TACK weld, you don't wanna generate alot of heat here and 90% of the pressure is going to be pulling the two together anyhow. Plus if and when you need to replace the ball joint you won't have that much weld grinding to do to remove it.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you're probably going to need to taper ream the holes in the spindles to get these new ball joints to fit in them correctly. I assume you are using the 20032 (upper) and 20038-1 (lower) ball joints and for these the correct reamer is the 2" taper per foot reamer. Do not go overboard on reaming the spindle holes as the further your ball joint studs go into the spindle the less height you are gaining with them. If I remember correctly the bottom hole in the spindle is the one that requires the most reaming to get it to go in. This reamer is about $100.00 (from speedway motors) but you can probably borrow one from a racing friend near you or possibly even find one cheaper from a machine-tool type business (or possibly even check about a local machine shop doing it for you for even less money?). You won't need a fancy mill or drill press or anything, a 1/2" drill works adequately.

longracing25
Member
posted August 28, 2002 01:45 AM
It says 7 replies , but why do i still see only 5 when i click on this topic. I use IE , and i did hold the control key while refreshing...that did not help. It is 1:41a wed. morning now, i'll see when this post finally shows up.Sorry to sound like i'm cryin.....but I WANT MY DIRT FORUM!....lol


longracing25
Member
posted August 28, 2002 02:56 AM
I guess there are no READY TO BOLT IN ball joints? If i just use the bottom ones...will that help the roll center? Are they TALL also? I'm trying to figure how to do this as easy as possible. Not for sure if i want to go with taller ball joints, or change to the impala spindles...or something. Are those impala or camaro spindles BOLT RIGHT UP, or is there any reaming or drilling required on those too...thanks.


blanep
Member
posted August 28, 2002 09:09 PM
Nothing good is easy. Well, a few things are, but that's another story. Anyways, the reason these ball joints are taller is because their overall dimensions are larger (for use in trucks, etc.) There aren't any taller ball joints that will slip right in without any modifications being done. If there are such things then someone must be holding them as a major secret. The lower ones require the least amount of work to the control arm but require the most work to the spindle. The uppers require the most amount of work to the control arm and the least to the spindle.

As for other spindles all together then I will have to defer to someone else as I have just never decided to try that route, but again, I'm sure that modifications must be done to make different spindles work correctly.

longracing25
Member
posted August 28, 2002 11:54 PM
Thanks for the info. I still have not decided which to do. Any body know if the taller impala spindles just bolt right up to the metric frame mounts, and which ball joints to use with them.


longracing25
Member
posted August 30, 2002 12:14 PM
I think what i'm gonna do now is : replace the lower ball joints with the taller ones(ream out the lower spindle) and run metric spindles, along with stock type uppers. Will this make a differance? thanks,for the help!


longracing25
Member
posted September 02, 2002 05:52 PM
This may be a dumb question....but what is the easiest way to press in the lower ball joints while the A-arms are on? thanks,,,


rico 08
Member
posted September 03, 2002 03:02 PM
I ALWAYS TAKE THE SWIVEL OUT OF THE FLOOR JACK AND PRESS IT IN USING THE WEIGHT OF THE CAR MAKE SURE YOU LEAVE OUT THE GREASE ZERK


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