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Author Topic:   SMALL METRIC FRAME TRICKS
LITTLEMAN
Member
posted December 22, 2000 09:13 PM
I'M BUILDING A NEW CAR WITH A SMALL METRIC STUB THINKING ABOUT PUTTING 68-72 NOVA LOWERS ON BACKWARDS RIGHT ON LEFT /LEFT ON RIGHT TO MOVE THE FRONT WHEELS FORWARD TO GET MORE REAR WEIGHT.HAS ANYBODY TRIED THIS?ALSO THINKING ABOUT USING THE 86 IROC DRAG LINK WITH THESE LOWERS TO CORRECT BUMP STEER.


awkwardjeff
Member
posted December 22, 2000 10:04 PM
I won't say this is the worst deal. But why a small metric and not a full size metric?
Well, no answer your questions. I did this ONCE and never again. sure you get your rear percent up there, but you will need to move the steering box and idler forward to keep the tie-rods square with the steering arms. If you don't do this the steering will feel no good.......the farther you turn the steering wheel the faster the wheels turn because of the angles and also ackerman is all messed up. So to correct this you need to move the box and idler forward.
why not build the car a little different to achieve rear percent without the long wheel base? This would take some thought and a little more work.just some thoughts.......Jeff


LITTLEMAN
Member
posted December 22, 2000 11:53 PM
so i'd be better off leaving them the right way ,or maybe it would be better not to use the nova lowers at all.I have built wide metric stock cars(used camero a-frames)thinking this would help cornering and it did but the next year they outlawed the wide front end so we had to go back to stock a-arms and use more offset wheels and got the same results without all the cutting and grinding.


garyg1
Member
posted December 23, 2000 05:32 AM
I would use the nova lowers as putting them on our car was a huge improvement. Went from always chasing the front end through the corners to driving like a cadillac and winning lots of races as soon as we bolted them on. Use the pinto spindles and you don't have to move the steering box at all since the steering arm on the pinto spindles is lots shorter. You might want to take any steering quickener you have out then as this short arm makes the steering real quick already. Personal feel there. The pintos also lot lighter and with the shorter steering arm the arm doesn't get bent as easily from wheel contact as the gm spindles. Was always replacing them with slight accidents, pintos last forever. The length and the bend built into the gm spindle steering arm makes them very susceptible to damage.
Another thing we have done very successfully is just use the right lower control arm. This moves only the right front wheel forward giving you some lead in that side, and we did not move the steering box. Right front tie rod does sit at a weird angle but steering was fine and felt totally responsive. Yes, before everyone writes that this messes all the bump steer etc up, put this setup in a computer program and it will say it will never work, but try it and you will spend only a few bucks and get big improvement.


awkwardjeff
Member
posted December 23, 2000 07:31 AM
Littleman, Try not to widen the front with wheel off-sets. build the front as wide as you can to keep 4off wheel on the left front and a 3off on the right front.......the reason for this ..........as you move the center of the wheel away from the spindle you create a bunch of scrub radius....When you did make the front wider this way before the car got better, I agree with that, but you could make it even better if you made it wider at the ball-joints then left the wheel off-sets alone.
Garyg1 is right in every thing he wrote.....BUT I'm not sure I'd put the right side on to make the wheel base longer on one side????? never tried. But the rest of the stuff is right on.........I still move the box and idler though, the wheel base changes 2 1/4 inches with the Nova-Camaro nova and the steering arm on the Pinto is about 1 1/2 shorter.......but even using all stock stuff these should be moved any way........if your rules allow you to move them you should.
you can also correct some bump-steer at the same time............Jeff
PS. did they change the rules back at your track, or is this a different class now?
my point is the Nova is the same as the 67-69 Camaro

[This message has been edited by awkwardjeff (edited December 23, 2000).]

LITTLEMAN
Member
posted December 23, 2000 09:25 AM
SO NOVA LOWERS CHANGE THE WHEELBASE 2 1/4 INCHES,WOW THAT'S A BUNCH.WHAT YEAR PINTO DO YOU USE?I'VE SEEN SOME PINTO SPINDLES BEFORE AND THEY WERE PRETTY SHORT,SEEMED IF WE USED THEM IT WOULD LOWER THE ROLLCENTER ALOT ,WHAT BALL JOINTS DID YOU GUYS USE?WHEN ,MOVING THE STEERING BOX I HAVE TO KEEP 1 STEERING BOLT IN STOCK LOCATION.IS THERE AN OUTLET FOR THE LOWERS?OH YA,THEY CHANGED THE RULES ON THE CLASS SO I COULDN'T DO THIS ANYMORE I BUILT ABOUT 10 CARS WITH THE CAMERO SUSPENSION THEY WON QUITE ABIT THE PROMOTER THOUGHT IS WAS AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE AND IT WAS KIND OF STRECHING THE RULES.THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO GUYS!!!!!LATER littleman

[This message has been edited by LITTLEMAN (edited December 23, 2000).]

MOD RACER#93
Member
posted December 23, 2000 02:59 PM

Littleman, The Pinto spindles don't change roll center at all. they are the same from the spindle center line(where the wheel bolts on) to the bottom ball joint. Where they differ from a mid-size metric is the spindle line to the top, the Pinto is 1 1/4 shorter......so, if you lower the upper A-frame mounts that 1 1/4" everything stays the same. Or you could get the adjustable ball joint for the upper and raise the ball joint the same 1 1/4".....
I forget the years of the Pinto stuff but also the Mustang II was the same......street rodders used a bunch of them up already. And when you find one they guy selling usually wants to sell the whole front clip because that's what the rodder guy buys......you may end up buying a whole front clip just to get spindle for a Pinto.........who would have thought these cars would have been soooo sought after and valuable..........LOL
Jeff


Bigdog
Member
posted December 23, 2000 06:49 PM
i am using a combo of a chevelle outer 68-72 and a 76 impala inner for tie rods, i am going to have to get longer sleeves though as the stock impala sleeve is too short . also i am thinking of going to the now imca legal use of the 5/8 outer swedge tube and heim end . this would allow one to set their bump steer very easy as you can space the outer heim up or down, depending on the thickness of spacers needed to get min bump.


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