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Author Topic:   front stagger
4b316
Member
posted March 08, 2000 07:35 PM
I been working with my front stagger and I can't seem to make much difference as long as I keep my weights right.Jammin,have you found a difference here?Am I wasting my time working with front stagger?Are you using front stagger to change cross and left side weight?Just a thought.


jammin
Administrator
posted March 08, 2000 10:20 PM
Most of the time, we just do it with eliminator changes, we will have several different setups already documented from the shop and are able to hone in on them pretty quickly. I dont use my front stagger much. I usually manipulate air pressures more than anything else on the front. Just the way I do things.


SCOOTER M40
Member
posted March 09, 2000 08:50 PM
Heres a tip that will take you a long way
If you learn when to use it.
Not many use it but I have for years and
it works.
Try to scale your car with the same size
front tires on it always(26.5 or 27.5) then
depending on the track condition you can
change both front tires to change the way
the car handles. Exam. a long fast track where u want the car to get back on the front
wheels easyer and corner better run the smaller fronts. On a stop and go typ track
where u can sling it in but need more forward bite run the taller tire on the front.
This also works to adjust to changing track
conditions.It will take you a lot further
on tuning in your car then FRONT stager will.
Hope this helps. Scott SCOOTER May


GnarlyCar
Member
posted March 10, 2000 01:08 PM
Front stagger changes only the corner wieghts, so if you went from 0 front to 3" front stagger while keeping the corner wieghts the same, you wouldn't notice any difference. Your roll center may move a microscopic amount, but far from anything that would amount to much.
With the understanding that rear stagger works because the rear tires are attatched to one another and turning on the same axis, one could see how the same stagger on the front of the car would bring about very little effect because of the fact that the fronts turn independent of one another, and around different axes. The same idea comes into play when running a gold trak or something like that..rear stagger doesn't matter with a gold trak because the tires aren't directly connected to each other.

As far as Scooter's idea of running bigger or smaller tires across the front, I can't really comment on it because I've never tried it, but it sounds like it makes sense to me..big long physics equations about roll resistance and weight transfer could explain it I'm sure, but it'd probably be faster to just try it.

Matt

jammin
Administrator
posted March 10, 2000 01:15 PM
All he is doing is increasing rear percentage with the larger tires in front and decreasing the rear percentage with the small ones.


4b316
Member
posted March 10, 2000 02:43 PM
Scooter,Are you just changeing rear % by doing that? Again why not change rear%? We only race the one track.(3/8 mile no bank) so I can't see buying 3 or 4 tires for front stagger purposes


jammin
Administrator
posted March 11, 2000 06:30 AM
When you put the larger tires on front, it will increase the rear percentage by raising it up, just how you would use weight jacks, then when the small tires are put on , they lower the front end, this is just another way to manipulate percentages. You can do much of the same thing with air pressures. Maybe not quite to the extent, but if you put one piece of lead on the rear, you have done the same thing.

[This message has been edited by jammin (edited 03-11-2000).]

SCOOTER M40
Member
posted March 11, 2000 07:41 AM
Gnarly is the only 1 that got it.Sorry it dosn't change the rear percentages.The only
way you can change the rear or the left side percentages on your car is by moveing lead or different offset wheels someting like that.The weight jacks won't do it they only change cross wheight.You would have to raise the car up much more than the tire change does to ever see any change on the scales.
As far as adding lead to get the same efect its not even close to the same change.
Hope this clears it up.



JimBo
Member
posted March 13, 2000 10:06 PM
It's clear as mud to me...lol


GnarlyCar
Member
posted March 14, 2000 08:20 AM
OK, Guys... Put your car on scales and put 15 turns into each of the rear screws... you'll have the same rear percentage as you did when you started.. The only way you gain rear or left percent is to physically add weight there, or remove wieght from the front or right side, respectively. If your scales are telling you otherwise, sell them to your competition and buy some good ones.
By the way, you may want to take those 15 turns back out before you run...
The later post regarding camber change and left to right braking bias brings up some good points and I can see how those ideas could hold some merit. I think I'll probably try it this year and see what it does. Probably a useful tuning tool. I've messed a lot with caster split in the past to get different crosswieght changes through steering travel, but I think that's the only way to do it.. I don't think the tire size would affect that rate of change, just the starting point, that being more crossweight with a smaller LF, and as consequence more cross weight increase through steering travel.
Not writing this off completely yet though... gonna go draw some pictures and look further into this camber issue..

Matt

jammin
Administrator
posted March 14, 2000 10:08 AM
Gnarly is right, my last post was wrong. It doesnt manipulate the rear. But it will manipulate the crossweights in the car. Sorry.


SCOOTER M40
Member
posted March 14, 2000 03:04 PM
Glad you finaly came around on this one
JAMMIN I knew from some of your other post you were smarter than that. *S*


jammin
Administrator
posted March 14, 2000 03:07 PM
We found this out on the scales but I had my head somewhere where it shouldnt have been. LOL.


4b316
Member
posted March 14, 2000 07:51 PM
So what about braking going into the corners then? Is front stagger going to make a difference here? I don't think it will,but ready to listen.It seems as long as your 2 front tires are not hook together it cannot possibly have a effect on cornering(as long as cross remains the same)


X-1R Guy
Member
posted March 15, 2000 05:56 AM
It sounds to me like the car just got tighter and tighter.


shakin
Administrator
posted March 16, 2000 11:33 AM
Reverse stagger will tighten the car up too, just like adding wedge into the car. I have run this several times when I was running a dry slick track, it works fine.


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