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Author Topic:   tubing bender problems?
DEEDDUDE
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 157
posted December 08, 2003 08:13 PM  
I just bought a ez-bend tubing bender from mid-american. I did a few test bends and they look like a muffler bender bent them. I also wrinked some 1 1/2" x .065. What could I be doing wrong? Or has any one had the same problems? thanks for your help.

66jj
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 823
posted December 08, 2003 09:22 PM  
do you have the pin die in the right hole on the bender?

1.75-1.5 go in the top hole.
1.25-1 go in the bottom hole.

also are you bending the correct way?? theres a direction your supposed to insert the pipe in and that the die is supposed to hang. I dont have my video but marked the direction on it when it was new it surely could matter.

you are using the right bottom die size I assume. some look close, they all fit really tight my pipe kinda hangs after bending in them, that is the only thing I dont like, and figuring where a 45 degree bend needs to start etc.

the plate that goes under the bottom die, hung on mine some at first so I sanded it really fast with a flapper wheel, and removed most the paint on the bottom rollers. that helped a ton, I think I was getting a tiny bit of crush at the very beginning of a bend on dom 1.75 because of that.

If you have the video I would watch it again, while looking at your bender, and write on the side all the directions etc. I did that and it payed of because I havent used it since last nov, till now and lost the video in the move accross 4 states to Iowa..
I can email you my bends on my new car I have done last week if you want to compare, but I cant see any crushing ....

Istock66jj@cs.com is my email.

sixwillwin
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 493
posted December 09, 2003 08:29 AM  
I have one also, it bends great, no crushing at all, but like the other guy said, I get sick of throwing away all the tubing that I got the bends in the wrong place! I bought mine used, so I dont have the video or any instructions at all, does anyone have any tips for me??

DEEDDUDE
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 157
posted December 09, 2003 03:31 PM  
I talked with the manufacturer today after talking to the company I bought this thing from. The guy who makes these said that every tubing bender he has ever seen made the same bend. Iíve built several cars and repaired a few and the benders Iíve borrowed never made this kind of bends. Iím giving them a week to try to come up with a solution. The second time I called the company I bought the bender from keep me on hold and keep giving me the run around, Weíll see how easy it is to return this thing.

Anyone ever use a bender from U.S. Tool and Die from Florida?

GO 24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 366
posted December 11, 2003 10:05 AM  
Mine is a few years old but it came from EZ-Bend also, I had to watch the tape numerous times and take notes but it's a piece of cake now. It's been converted to air hydralic assist and that beats the heck out of the pump!

Does anyone ever use those $60/12 ton/hand pump jobbies? I bought one thinking this thing will be perfect for the 1/2 chrome moly nerf bars on our mini-spint but up to now I've wasted 20 ft of mild steel stuff trying to figure it out---kinks it for some reason, the dies alittle loose even though it's supposed to be the right size. Any suggestions?

dirtrace
unregistered Total posts: 366
posted December 11, 2003 10:42 AM           send a private message to GO 24   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
a pipe bender is sized for pipe, which is id.

tubing is sized for od.

you can use some tubing to make a sleeve but it will never be perfect.

ez bend said they were making more dies, maybe they have by now, I would check with them.


GO 24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 366
posted December 11, 2003 11:05 AM  
Darn I should have known better. I'll just have to break down and get a new die. Thx!

DEEDDUDE
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 157
posted December 11, 2003 04:23 PM  
I talked to Bill with Mid-American today and he said that all of his benders make this bend that I discribed. I talked with a few people who told me the same thing. I'm looking at the pro and us tool benders now. Both companys said their benders didn't change the shape of the pipe. Thanks for the replies.

Bill does have some new dies now.

sbateman
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted December 17, 2003 06:40 PM  
hey im glad i read yas post i was just fixin to buy a ez bend and now im scared too ,has anyone used the pro tool bender and if so how was it

dirtrace
unregistered Total posts: 46
posted December 17, 2003 07:06 PM           send a private message to sbateman   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
my ez bend works great as stated above by everyone else with one. I have never kinked a single piece of pipe, If you did you did something wrong.

this same bender is what several chassis builders around Iowa are useing.It is unlikely that Thunder Chassis would be building his 70th plus chassis right now if the bends werent good!!!!

DEEDDUDE
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 157
posted December 18, 2003 04:34 PM  
I've bent plenty of tubing and I've built a few cars. I think I know how to bend tubing. The ez bender is a muffler bender. I have seen a lot of cars with these types of bends and the laughs that they produce. Iíve also seen cars built by lefthander, port city, and a few other latemodel builders. No ugly bends. No one around here builds cars with these types of bends.
sbateman- The pro that Iíve used makes some nice bends. I sent the ez back and bought a US. Iíll let you know how it bends should be here by Tuesday.

outlawstock17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1363
posted December 18, 2003 05:27 PM  
i've got a tubing bender from US tool and die. it works great. it's a manual bender and you have to really "honk" on it to bed heavier tubing, but it doesn't kink the tubing. use a little lube on the dies and it will make the bend easier.

[This message has been edited by outlawstock17 (edited December 18, 2003).]

sbateman
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted December 18, 2003 08:33 PM  
hey deedude thanx ,let me know how it does i almost bought a ez bender last week but ill hold off till i hear back ,dont wanna buy something im not gonna like

racerguy500
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 168
posted December 19, 2003 05:27 AM  
Got mine at jdsquared and it works great. Built over 50 cars so far and not one issue yet. Bends are nice and smooth and look really good. Not hard to use either, my 12 year old son (100 pounds soaking wet) can bend 1 3/4" x.120 with no problems. Also had my wife doing some bending last week and she loves it. I may never get to bend another tube, lol. And from what I have seen the dies are the same as the us tool ones but cheaper at jdsquared. Good luck.
quote:
Originally posted by sbateman:
hey deedude thanx ,let me know how it does i almost bought a ez bender last week but ill hold off till i hear back ,dont wanna buy something im not gonna like


GO 24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 366
posted December 19, 2003 10:37 AM  
Maybe EZ Bends changed their design or something but man I've bent hundreds of feet of tubing and built more cages than I care to count and haven't kinked a bend in years---I did when I 1st started using it though...

CUSTOMPERFORMANCE
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1172
posted December 23, 2003 11:46 PM  
I have a Hossfeld type bender and the only time I have had tubing kink is when i try to bend too thin of tubing or have had the electric welding tubing kink once in awhile but thats because its soft.

CUSTOMPERFORMANCE
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1172
posted December 23, 2003 11:50 PM  
I should add I have never kinked DOM tubing but have only kinked electric weld tubing. The kinking problem was more common when I first starting using the bender when all the dies were new, since the dies have been used a few years i have hardly kinked a piece of tubing.

ford5
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 711
posted December 24, 2003 06:20 AM  
i bought one of the very 1st E-Z benders from Bill, he is not too far from me and i know him pretty well, i have had this bender for 4 years now and bent 100s of feet of tubing and i have never had one problem yet. before that i had a GreenLee die setup. it was ok too, but it bent on an 8in radius instead of a 6in. IMO you can't go wrong with the EZ bender. most of us are just 'hobbiest' anyway.. I know that the finest chassis builder craftsmanship that i have ever seen is, done with a Mittler Bros bender, but they are pricey.

DEEDDUDE
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 157
posted December 25, 2003 12:02 PM  
Just finished bending some fuel cell guards with the US Tool and Die hydraulic bender. This thing makes some very nice bends.

Extreme Race Cars
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted December 31, 2003 04:53 PM  
Have had my Mittler Bros for 10 years wouldn't trade for anything except the new 180 degree bender I'll be getting next month. A big plus is they will take your used mittler bender in trade. Also the Ultimite notcher is simply awsome.

rigid1
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 22
posted January 01, 2004 09:53 PM  
deedude,
i agree, i have also tried to bend .065 x 1 1/2 ew. tube for front bumpers and had the same problem. i must also say that i have had this bender around 4 years and bent a lot of dom and ew,and the only problem i have had is with the .065 ew.if money where not an issue i would have a mittler.

CUSTOMPERFORMANCE
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1172
posted January 02, 2004 06:15 AM  
As weak as any ERW tubing is your gonna have problems with an .065 wall kinking on just about any bender. On my Hossfeld bender i can bend to a .083 wall no problem and the .065 will kink sometimes. Dom tubing I bend .065 wall all the time and have never kinked a piece yet.

More than likely it is a problem with the tubing being weak and too thin and thats why the ERW is kinking. ERW tubing varys .003-.005" + or - in thickness.

DEEDDUDE
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 157
posted January 02, 2004 07:16 AM  
I made a bunch of bends yesterday using 1 3/4" x .095. No kinks, just deformed at the begining of the bend. I believe the problem is the radius of the bender.

Custom, What radius do you use on your cars? I measured my car and they look to be 8", the dies I have now are 6" and I think they are to tight for the 1 3/4". The 1 1/2" bends are real nice.

dirtrace
unregistered Total posts: 157
posted January 02, 2004 08:20 AM           send a private message to DEEDDUDE   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
DEEDUD

So your back to the same exact bend your EZ bend made.

better get rid of that bender also

awkwardjeff
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 562
posted January 02, 2004 08:12 PM  
I too have a hossfeld bender..... it SHOULD NOT matter what bender you use..... wall thickness is what dictates the radius of the bend. the worst tube to bend is ELECTRIC WELD...... so we will use that for minimum wall thickness.

MINIMUM WALL THICKNESS .080

1 inch will bend into a 4 inch radius

1 1/4 will also go 4 inch radius

1 1/2 will go 5 inch radius

1 3/4 will go 6 inch radius

These are CENTERLINE RADIUS bends....... SOME BENDERS USE OUTSIDE RADIUS, obviously a centerline radius is a little tighter then a outside radius. It is tighter by half the diameter of the tube.

The reason for the wall thickness is as a tube bends it needs to stretch on the outside of the radius...... if you use less then .080 the tube becomes too thin and will deform. This is WHY people have flat bends.

If you have a tube bender and NOT a pipe bender the draw block needs to stay close the inside die as it pulls the tube around the radius. If the draw block is too far away the bend starts later then you intend but the stopping point of the bend will still be the stopping point to get to 90 degrees...... what this does is makes a tighter radius then you intended. And you don't know or understand why. (with the tighter radius you flattend the tube)

Richard can help explain this ....... But if you don't have a MATCHED set of dies you will ALWAYS have problems. On my Hossfeld if I use a 5 inch radius center die, and then use the 6 inch radius draw block die it will deform the tube, AGAIN BECAUSE THE DRAW BLOCK DIE (the one pulling the tube) is too far away, letting the bend start late but still end at the same time......so I would end up with about a 4 inch radius bend, but would be UGLY.

I've never messed with a EZ bender....BUT, all benders have 3 dies....... some have 2 dies and a strap to hold the tube on one die....... if the strap is for the wrong tube you basically have the wrong die... the strap is the 3rd die....

In closing I would say you have a miss matched set of dies.... 5 inch radius dies mixed with 6 inch radius dies..... creating the above mentioned problem.

powerglides
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 374
posted January 15, 2004 08:55 AM  
I have found on thin wall tubing that if you turn the weld to the inside of the bend it does not kink as often. I use a homemade bender I built that is a copy of a jd squared. It makes great bends and distortion is less than .080 in the center of the bend.

CUSTOMPERFORMANCE
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1172
posted January 16, 2004 07:19 PM  
I use the 6" radius on the 1 1/2 and 1 3/4 dies and 4" or 5" on the 1 1/4 and 3" radius on the 1" dies.

widebody
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 296
posted January 29, 2004 03:27 PM  

pro-tools.com

they seem decent enough, have used the one shot before and it nice, no trouble with ERW, but like was said they spec dies for certian thickness of pipe, and their chart is easy to follow, thinner=larger radius.


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