Visit The Dirt Forum for More Information

Author Topic:   How much tubing?
RACEINMUD
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 325
posted November 14, 2005 09:18 AM  
Going to buy a 4 post kit from Redline. How much tubing do I need for the front & rear hoop on a metric. 20, 30 feet? Thanks, Race

o5racer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 404
posted November 15, 2005 12:04 AM  
Depending on how much bracing you do 60-80 should cover it.

RACEINMUD
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 325
posted November 15, 2005 08:10 AM  
Thanks!

mansfief
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 129
posted November 15, 2005 08:16 AM  
Before you buy a cage check out the cages at WWW.rolecagecomponents.com I just ordered one from them and they have the best deal on cages and cheaper shipping cost.

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 427
posted November 15, 2005 10:11 AM  
depending on how much experiance you have at building a car. it will probably be safer and cheaper to buy a complete kit..also remember time is money too..

RACEINMUD
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 325
posted November 15, 2005 01:58 PM  
This will be my first car after 5 yrs of racing. I would like a kit just can't find what I want. Called a few places on the width of their 4 post and was told "not sure". So I figured I'd better keep looking. I would like a 47 1/2" width for the offset and around 42" long for the setback. Thanks for the help all. Race

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 427
posted November 18, 2005 08:54 AM  
try csc cages. they offer good standard cages, and you can tell them what kind off set back you are wanting as well. think the website is www.csc.com

ive ordered and built 6 off their kits and the first 2 fit perfect, the other 4 i cheated back on the frame. shortened rear bars, and added to the front hoop. with a welder and a torch nothing is impossible.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5425
posted November 19, 2005 10:06 AM  
well in leafs defense if you look at mod and l/m frames you will notice alot of the chasis builders use the gussetes. i have looked at 5 or 6 late model chassis that were completly destroyed besides the drivers compartment and they were gusstes as well

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5425
posted November 20, 2005 08:40 AM  
I am far from an engineer however, I have never really liked the halo gussets either.

If you look in any other type of motorsports, I dont think you will find that type of halo attachment being used. Everything I have ever seen is attached directly to the main rollbar. Now, gussets in joints I fully agree with.

From my standpoint, if the halo were to take a hit from the front forcing it rearward, I would think the gussets would just simply rip out of the tubing and allow the halo to proceed rearward leaving just the two front down bars to support it. That would do away with any kind of protection you have above and in front of you. Plus you the have the halo being forced rearward......towards the driver.

Whereas if it is welded directly to the main rollbar, with the rear down bars directly on the other side of the main rollbar, it could not go rearward at all in a crash. I read a concern of it crushing the tubing and failing.......well isnt that where the diagonal bar or X bar behind the driver comes into play. That keeps the bend in the main rollbar for going anywhere. There was also mention of not trusting one ****py weld over a gusset system.....well in that case I think it is time to find a new welder or have it professionally welded. You should be able to trust every single weld in that car with your life.

Again, I am no engineer, but welding the halo directly to the main rollbar seems 1000 times safer to me.

That is how 99% of the guys in this area do their cages. So far the only cage failures I have witnesses were due to extremely shoddy welding, very thin tubing, or a combination of both.

I will be building my car with the halo welded directly to the main rollbar......my head depends on it.

[This message has been edited by Chris Daniel (edited November 20, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Chris Daniel (edited November 20, 2005).]

robhbk24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 375
posted November 20, 2005 02:59 PM  
personally and this is coming from someone who has had more than thier share of rollovers i have no problems with the gussets i have used both and have been over in both the gusset work real well and are plenty strong also alowwing a little more head room for some of us 6ft+ people.the car i have now uses gussets the kit cam from scp the new car i am building for next year will not have them just because i like the jr kit better the the scp kit. as far as 17j is concerned i personally don't know him but have taken his advice on metric setups more than once and by the end of this past year i had that ****ed thing hooked so hard on a dryslick track that i was bending and twisting rear axle tubes on a fairly regular basis which i never did before.and it doesn't necessarliy matter what the welds look like as long as they are strong i do all my cages with an old stick welder and alot of mine look like goose shat on a stick but i'll stand behind thier strength

Chris Daniel
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted November 20, 2005 04:43 PM  
I forgot about the diagonal/X bar inside of the halo. In that case, that would stop the rearward movement of the halo, along with having the tube gussets and the rear downbars attached at the rear of the gussets. That makes more sense now, with the additional bracing the halo would really have no place to go.

That aside, what is the logic behind the gusset method?

There was mention of the NON-gusset method creating a weak point where the halo attaches. The way I see it, properly braced, with the halo on one side, downbar on the other, the diagonal brace behind the driver coming from the inside of the bend, and additional gusseting whether it be tube or plate......there should be no weakening of any kind in an impact due to everything being triangulated.

Now you can achieve the same thing with the gusset method, except that two of the triangulation points have been moved outward with plate steel, which in MY mind takes away from that triangulation strength because those two points COULD POSSIBLY tear away from the main rollbar in an impact.

I have never seen this happen on a rollcage, however I have seen nerfbar mounts that are welded to the doorbars in a similar manner actually torn from the tube at the point it was welded. The welds never broke, they just simply tore a chunk of the tube out during the impact.

That has been my only problem with the gusset method, again in MY mind.

Again, I am no engineer, this is just my opinion.

Chris Daniel
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted November 20, 2005 05:22 PM  
Thank you for explaining that to me.

I agree with you, neither way, if done correctly, is wrong or unsafe. I will chalk that up to personal preference.

I am a relativly short person so headroom is not a problem with me .

Flying Jack Ace
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 8
posted November 22, 2005 08:10 PM  
CSC has a number of kits and will build you anything you want. buy a full prebent cage..Its enough work as it is.

ryan
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 782
posted November 24, 2005 09:07 PM  
2 years ago at a special I rolled a few times right as I was entering the corner(axle)it was hard and fast.I had the gusset type (scp)on that car and it didn't budge at all. I did however run another gusset on the inside. My next car will be directly welded to the halo. I don't see any advantages to the gusset type over the direct mount way.
Maybe 17j and leaf can have a weld off post pics anytime.

    

Back to the Archives