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Author Topic:   rear sway bar????
robhbk24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 372
posted October 27, 2005 03:24 PM  
i know from experience most you'all will say throw it away but hear me out and give me some input. i spent a lot of time getting my car (metric chassis) to work on a dryslick surface and while i accomplished that and i still have ideas how to make it better i have found during the heats when the track is still tacky that the car has too much bite i tried taking 50lbs out of the lr to loosen the car up but it was way scary loose so i tried messing with airpressure and wheel offsets but wasn't able to make a real big difference. what i'm looking for is something that i can change easily or adjust without having to pull the car apart between the heats and the features and this is where the rear sway bar will help i think. i currently run a front bar 1 1/8th and like it on all surfaces i tried without it and did not like it at all. i do not currently run a rear bar but years ago i tried a 1 inch hellwig rear bar and it seemed to loosen the car up alot more than i wanted but i chalked that up to the fact that the bar was so big in diameter and inexperience. a stock metric bar is much thinner and offer less resistance but still loosening the car up.correct? But the stock bar is a pain to hook and unhook when your control arm angles are not identical or if you have the arms boxed in with 1x1 which mine are. so here is my idea i recently junked an 86 camaro and i pulled the entire rear assembly out complete with sway bar, the bars on these cars mount to the rear end with u-bolts and to the frame with regular endlinks and they are a fairly small diameter. I'm building a new car so adding mounts will not be a prob, the endlinks are easy to unhook and infintly adjustable as far as preload. will this work to get what i am after? is there any gain to be had in preloading the bar like on the front? or leaving one side slighlty loose as some do? am i on the right track here, i'm building a new car and i have some ideas on how to make it even better on dryslick but i also want it good for tacky or wet without making major changes.i saw a guy years ago with a 2nd gen camaro with a rear bar and he was bad fast and those bars hook up the same way actually any of the leaf spring rear sway bar combos are the same.any opinions???

robhbk24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 372
posted October 28, 2005 03:19 PM  
anybody got an idea??? i'm thining that it's going to another thing that i can use to add adjustability to the suspension. all your top handling street cars have them i 'm looking for poss + or - what effects will addining it and adjusting it have?gotta be someone

Eljojo
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 968
posted October 28, 2005 04:16 PM  
I'm watching this thread too-surely someone had given it a try.

bobaluuu
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 474
posted October 28, 2005 08:58 PM  
seems we've run off all of our better thinkers and are down to 136 post about slogans on the cars and why certain posters are using this forum as a personal assault forum against other racers. I've seen many decent ??? go unanswered while these same few guys wax on with 500 word essays. ok I'm off my stump for awhile

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Light it up, Baby!

Eljojo
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 968
posted October 29, 2005 04:24 AM  
right on Boba!

wrenchturner10
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 80
posted October 29, 2005 10:58 AM  
We also run a dry slick track and some cars run a rear swaybar and some don't. I talked to the guys that run them and they seem to like the way the car handles but some of them are front runners and some are back runners so it seems to be driver prefferance as to the rear swaybar. We don't run one but are thinking about it also. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

marshalr
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 148
posted October 29, 2005 11:37 AM  
I would try it. A year or two ago i was still running a sway bar on my car. I swore by it. I was on the verge of finding a rear sway bar off of a camaro.
Now i run on tracks that are very tacky all night, 1 is also very high banked. I found i never used the bar anymore so i took it off.
If your track turns shiny dry slick i say put a bar on it.
I'd try to find the smallest bar available and start with small adjustments.
Remember it does nothing for static weight, disconnect it when you are on the scales.
I would use it to put more left rear bite in the car, and by adding better left rear control, it's gonna help the RR too, i would expect it to kill the metrics coming off the turns.

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Some People Race For A Living; I Live To Race

robhbk24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 372
posted October 31, 2005 03:02 PM  
thanks for the ideas was hopin for more but guess no one has ever tried it so i will be the test dummy on this one. gonna start on the new car in a couple of weeks, (the frame is already cleaned boxed shortened and squared started that in june) and i'll keep anybody interested updated and try to post some pics and next year we'll see what it does.

CLBaker25
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 193
posted November 01, 2005 07:17 AM  
If you can get cd2 to post, I think that he knows alot about sway bars. I saw that he posted sometime recently.

Hutch5375
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 123
posted November 01, 2005 08:54 AM  
I am also planning on running a rear bar for the upcoming season (Metric chassis). I built my own rear control arms and have made mounts for the stock rear bar on them. I think more can be gained by decreasing weight transfer and distributing load by adding a rear bar, than by raising the rear roll center and decreasing rear roll stiffness. I also think that getting both rear tire to effectively grip the track will result in more predictable setups and changes rather than driving the car off of the RR tire. Just my thoughts and theories.

CLBaker25
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 193
posted November 01, 2005 11:20 AM  
When you say decreasing weight transfer what do you mean? Weight transfering off of the rear to the front or weight transfering front the left rear to the right rear? Which weight are you trying to stop from transfering?


Hutch5375
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 123
posted November 01, 2005 02:35 PM  
Keeping it from transferring off of the left rear. Transferring from the front to the back is desirable for corner exit, by increasing the load on the rear tires.

robhbk24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 372
posted November 01, 2005 03:15 PM  
that's what i was thinking too, on dry slick i get an awsome bite the car rolls over on the rr and squats and you can feel it biteing in but on a tacky track i don't need that as much, and i was thinking that with the bar it would load the rears equally or i could set the bar up to put a little bit less bite on the rr and a little more on the lr maybe not even butu closer to even, and then unhook or loosen up one or both links before the feature when things get slick

CLBaker25
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 193
posted November 01, 2005 07:09 PM  
Hutch5375,

I just wanted to make sure and understand what you were saying before I repsonded.

I think that it might make the car looser every where in the corner. IMO weight from the inside tires transfers thru the roll center or moment arm (I don't know it is one of those fancy words) and gives the car side bite which helps counter act the centrifigul forces on the car and helps the car turn evenly thru the corner. Without the proper balance in the car this transfer of weight will make the car want to get either really loose or really tight.

So IMO weight transfer gives a car side bite and gets the tires biting. I know that we are not racing modifieds, but if they don't have any sidebite in their cars they won't go. Wether the car stands up on the bars and three wheels is dependent on the amount of roll steer and bar angles but I think that they need the weight transfer and side bite to make the magic happen.

My uncle always told me that body roll is not weight trasfer, but I sure thought that it looked when a car really rolls on the right rear.

I am not sure how a sway bar would affect the way the weight transfers in the car. I guess it would probably act like another spring. So it would probably make the car think that it has a stiffer right rear spring. Which to a certain extent would tighten the car on entry and loosen it on exit.

Good Luck and let us know how it works. Maybe cd2 will chime in on this subject.

[This message has been edited by CLBaker25 (edited November 01, 2005).]

    

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