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Author Topic:   winter storage
DJR22
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted October 08, 2005 08:56 PM  
What does everyone do with the coolant system during the cold months if you run straight water...and your car isn't worthy of the garage, and must be stored outside? Just drain it? Add antifreeze?

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ryan
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 776
posted October 08, 2005 09:06 PM  
Ours is in the garage but it still gets below 0 in there. What we do is take the radiator out pull the block drain plugs and blow out all the water then fill block with pure antifreeze.

redneck racing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 860
posted October 08, 2005 10:08 PM  
I drain all the water out of the radiator then do a 50/50 of coolant and water and run it through the block. Eddie

md3 Racing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 32
posted October 09, 2005 08:01 AM  
make sure you get all the water out of the block or it will blow the soft plugs and/or crack the block refill with 50/50 anti-freeze and run the anti-freeze next year and the car will stay cooler

Donald g man
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 14
posted October 09, 2005 03:56 PM  
In addition to the anti-freeze, change the oil and run it up to temp for 15 min to coat the motor, take off the rockers and save the valve springs, put a carb cover with a plastic bag on it, and seal the headers off with rags and bags.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted October 10, 2005 06:24 PM  
One more thing to remember if your car has to spend the winter outside, take the seat belts out. The moisture will make them brittle.

DJR22
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted October 11, 2005 10:25 AM  
Ok thanks for all the info. Already took out the belts and window net.

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iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted October 11, 2005 10:59 AM  
Here are also a few things to keep in mind when do a over the year storage.

Jack the car up to take the weight off the springs and un hook the shock and put them inside the house freezing and thawing is very hard on shocks. Also take your tires off the car and put them in side and put a coating of oil on them just a light 5w30 will do that helps them from cracking. MAke sure if there is any fuel leeft in the fuel cell to take all the fuel out and blow fogging oil through the fuel lines no matter if they are rubber or not unless you plan on replacing them come the begining of the year.

On the motor make sure to back the vavles all the way off and fill the plug holes full of fogging oil.

What we do with the motors is drain all the water out of the block with the drain plugs there isnt enough water left in them to crack anything that is what will crack blocks is the freezing and expanding of water in a tight place drops of water left in the block will not freeze and break the block. We have never worried about putting antifreeze in the block for over the winter.

O one more thing that method is for when you take the motor out of the car not for leaving it in the car because we also put the motor on the engine stand and turn it upside down to make sure the water is all out of it.
If we do leave the motor in the car then we do a 70/30 mix of antifreeze and distilled water and run the motor for about 30 minutes or so and cover the radiator up when running the motor so it gets to temp faster usally around 180 to 190 degrees.

If you are keeping it outside go invest in two 4.00 tarpds from walmart and cover it up because race car tubbing rust from the inside out. that is why I never buy a car that is more then 2 yrs old!!!

hope this helps you all

August

tin cup
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 11, 2005 01:48 PM  
If water work's better than antifreeze, then what do you use in your hauler? ANTIFREEZE DOES WORK. It also say's coolant on the jug. I tried distilled h2o and water wetter and my car got hot. Changed to a 50/50 with water wetter and it didn't hit 200,190 to be exact. Even in midsummer heat, it barely crack's 205-210.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted October 11, 2005 05:55 PM  
Another thing that 17j forgot to mention is that if you do run antifreeze in your race car and you happen to blow a head gasket or get water in your bottom end with antifreeze then it will eat your bearings and you will have to replace them before you race again.

All anitfreeze does is raises your boiling point and obviously lower the point at wich water freezes. Antifreeze doesnt really add any extra cooling to your race car not that we have ever seen before but it does add more of a boiling point to your water that is why it runs cooler for you. If you were reaching 212 or higher then you water was starting to boil in the car depending on how high your preesure on your radiator cap was. So when your water started to boil it adds steam and steam will not circulate in a motor so when you added antifreeze to your motor you raised that boiling point thus making your car run cooler.

So you really nead to figure out why it was running hot in the first place and then get rid of antifreeze!!

August

tin cup
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 11, 2005 06:12 PM  
This is the first time in 9+ years that I have ever added water wetter. I've never had a problem before with a 50/50 mix. The guy that pits next to me tried it w/o antifreeze. It got hot on him, too. Our average temp. here in Oklahoma summertime is around 100 +/- a couple degees. We run antifreeze and it works. I hope it's antifreeze your spinning out in and not pee.lol

tin cup
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 11, 2005 06:22 PM  
If I blow a head gasket, i'm changing motors, period. I only had a overheating problem without antifreeze. Last week, it didn't get over 190. And i had the nose smashed in. It say's coolant on the jug not water stabilizer.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted October 11, 2005 08:13 PM  
here is what iam trying to say

SIERRA
Water Freeze Point
(Ice Crystals Form) Boiling
Point
40% 60% -4F 249F*
50% 50% -26F 256F*
60% 40% -54F 261F*
66% 34% -76F 262F*
*Closed System; 14 psi caps

That is why it was keep you cool the term "summer coolant" on the jug refers to the boiling point when your car is in traffic or under stress your stock system with a 14 psi radiator cap will not boil your system over.

Now then in a race car when you use a 28 to 32 lbs radiator cap you raise the boiling point of the water due to release pressure of the sytem. So to kind of answer the question does antifreeze or water cool better well that depends on how high or pressure your system can stand with anitfreeze you can run a little less pressure with stock head gaskets and also take a risk of spilling it on the track and making a mess in the shop cause as well all know antifreeze doesnt dry up on the garage floor with out some oil dry lol
Or you can run water with or w/o a additive wich iam not to big on water wetter but I am on fabric softner and you run a more pressurized system and dont have the risk of spilling it plus the added extra cost ( unless your a millionair and dont care)

If it works for you then great but also keep in mind that some tracks here in iowa will not allow you to run antifreeze in the system I know its a big no no on asphalt tracks

August

[This message has been edited by iowa_dirt_track_girl (edited October 11, 2005).]

DJR22
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted October 11, 2005 09:33 PM  
No tracks around here (the great northwest) allow anything but water in your radiator. And it's just about a cardinal sin to say the "a word" around a paved track, and they don't have cooling problems.

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-stand on it-

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted October 11, 2005 11:21 PM  
just stip the dam thing down and start all over..you better bet your competition sure is..

enduro80
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 12
posted October 12, 2005 04:30 AM  
I dunno maybe i'm missing somthing or this is an inside joke but what is the purpose of using Fabric Softener in a Radiator???Figured maybe I was the only one that caught that or just the only one that doesnt know about it?Enduro80

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted October 12, 2005 10:27 AM  
Contrary to what people think fabric softener is very effective in reducing the temp in your race car.

Because fabric softener acts as a agent by reducing hot spots in the engine block itself it creats a chemical reaction to cast iron. It has been used it many rv's well a form it it for many years to help the over heating in the mountains.
I put it to the test about 10 yrs ago or so using Downy fabric softner now I use just the cheap stuff from walmart.

If you dont think it makes a difference just go to the local store buy a bottle of it and put it in your race car and you will see a 10 degree drop in your normal running temp now you might not notice it right away but buy the time your 2nd or 3rd race come you will notice a difference.

Put 2 cups in a 5gallon system and 3 cups in a 7 gallon system

DONT MIX WITH ANTIFREEZE!!!!!!!!

Oh ya one more thing your car will smell good also...plus you can make it smell how you want to mountain breeze,orange etc.......LMAO


August

[This message has been edited by iowa_dirt_track_girl (edited October 12, 2005).]

powerglides
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 374
posted October 12, 2005 11:53 AM  
I did not see mention of Fogging the engine down with maring fogging oil. This is extremely important to keeping rust and corosion from occuring inside the cylinders!

tin cup
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 12, 2005 02:18 PM  
I don't know how hot it gets there, but here in Oklahoma, it's about 100 +/- a couple degree's when we start racing. We run anti-freeze because we need it. I do add the water wetter just for *hit'* and giggles. We don't run antifreeze on asphalt here, but most of the car's have to be cooled off after the race. I've heard about the fabric softener thing before. Never tried it though.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted October 12, 2005 07:12 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by tin cup:
We run anti-freeze because we need it.

Uhh...I think everyone is pretty unanimous on this subject. Definately something else wrong if you NEED anti-freeze. It's called anti-freeze and not "anti get hot" just for the record.

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-stand on it-

Normal Sullivan
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 39
posted October 12, 2005 10:21 PM  
It isn't unanimous. Although it is true that there's no magic heat remover in coolant it does help cooling by increasing the fluid viscosity of your water. In reality the water at the center of the water jackets is moving much faster than the water that's in contact with the metal surfaces, and this limits the amount of engine heat that's transferred to the water, and in turn limits the amount of that contained heat that is transferred out through the radiator. By increasing the viscosity of the water, coolant also increases the thickness of the "slow" water and does in fact transfer more engine heat into the cooling system. In a stationary engine with a constant load this doesn't matter, eventually either set-up will stabilize at the same temperature, assuming you stay below the boiling point. We don't race cars that way. In a race car coolant can absorb more heat from the very localized hot-spots faster than water can, and as a result tends to stabilize engine temperatures more effectively than water alone. Most "anti-freeze" also contains corrosion inhibitors, and lubricants that do enhance the effectiveness of your cooling system overall. So it isnt just behavior above boiling point that matters, and not every racerloads his/her engine to the same degree. Do what works.

tin cup
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted October 13, 2005 02:59 PM  
17j, I don't have a cooling problem. It ran at 190 all night last week. The ONLY time it got hot was without antifreeze. I just went to the shop and found 2 different bottle's of antifreeze and they both say ANTIFREEZE/COOLANT or ANTIFREEZE & COOLANT. Sound's like "anti-get-hot" to me. It also say they "prevent freezing and overheating". Thanks for the back-up, Normal.

powerglides
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 374
posted October 14, 2005 07:27 AM  
Well Normal, either you are a thermal engineer or you read a lot. But I think a thicker fluid will have less heat transfer capability, due in part to surface tension. Go to www.stewartcomponents.com and read the tech section. It gives lots of good info on cooling specific to race cars.

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted October 14, 2005 08:13 AM  
not to mention that antifreeze is oil based and oil holds heat longer than water. i guess its all personal preferance but i will never use antifreeze in a race car unless its in threat of freezing. ive been burned by it, ive seen how it corrodes aluminum, and i see no sense in running it.

magician227
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 55
posted October 20, 2005 04:30 PM  
OK...My 2 cents worth. First off, 17J did not post 5316 times on this site without not knowing what he is talking about. I'm not saying all his help is gospel, but you better come with some pretty guns if you are going to try and shoot his knowlege out of the water.

Second...my personal experience. I just started racing last year. My forst car ran hot from day one, at least 220 or more every night. Here in Misery...err, Missouri, start time temps of 100+ are the norm in the summer. One quick post and a search and I found several suggestions.

1. Lose the flex fan. Get a steel blade rigid fan. Flex fans flatten out at high RPM, thus losing air volume. 6 blade steel fan from Jegs.....24.99. 4 blade fans fron trucks work good too I'm told.

2. Build a good shroud. Seal it to the radiator with foam tape. Leave the fan half in and half out of the shroud(very inportant).

3. Lose the thermostat. Use a 3/4 restrictor or just gut the center out of a thermostat.

4. Check your timing. Bad timing will cause a car to overheat no matter what you do.

5. Read your plugs. Wrong air/fuel mix will do the same thing as bad timing.

6. Open up the front end, build an airbox if necessary. Get as much air flowing across that radiator as possible.

7. Not really necessary, but an aluminum radiator always helps. Afco make a great one for less that 200 bucks. Again, aftermarket isnt necessary, but a good, clean radiator is. Also, if you have ever got real hot, chances are your radiator is shot. The inner tubes balloon and becom less effective. Put a new 28-32lb cap on.

I promise you, do these things first, and you will have no use for anti-freeze or water wetter in cooling. I do run WW, but just for the corrosion prevention. After doing everything above I am out less than 300 dollars, and I run at 190 degrees no matter what now. Small price to pay to prevent the most damaging thing a race motor sees, heat. Also, I can fluch my system every couple of weeks and not have to pay for anti-freeze, and I can dump the radiator srtaight on the shop floor with no worries.

Just my $0.02.....
Magician

Normal Sullivan
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 39
posted October 21, 2005 03:19 AM  
Powerglides: You're close. Actually I'm a Hydraulics Engineer, but fluid dynamics doesn't change from one science to another. And again, you're correct that surface tension is a factor, though wrong about it's effect. By increasing the fluid viscosity, and "slowing" the coolant in contact with the metal surfaces of your engine and radiator, more heat is transferred to the coolant than with water alone. The very issue of coolant mixtures "retaining" heat is indicative of this fact. It retains more heat because it absorbs more heat, NOT because it's a less efficient cooling medium, and NOT because it's oil-based (which it isn't). Without re-addressing the points made in my previous post, and with no disrespect to 17j, a whole lot of engineering went into developing these coolant products, and a lot more went into designing the vehicles that use it. If GM/Ford says you need to run coolant in the summer, who am I to argue? They built the da*n thing. I'm not preaching that it solves design and maintenance problems with anyones racer, but the statement that if you need to use coolant something else MUST be wrong, or that coolant doesn't work; well.....

    

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