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Author Topic:   right side positive camber
track_trash_66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted August 14, 2005 10:18 AM  
ok , i was wanting to get more positive camber for my right side on a metric chassis , and i was goint to try to either put on 2 leftside uppers or move the holes on the frame mount back about a half inch. any suggestions?

waltonjr1
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 516
posted August 14, 2005 10:29 AM  
Did you mean caster? If you take your time, you can use a small grinder and grind the welds around the mount to remove it then reposition it where you want it.
If you dont re weld it to pretty you will hardly be able to tell by looking at it.

track_trash_66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted August 14, 2005 10:34 AM  
ya i meant caster.srry . i thought of doing that i just didnt want to get it to far outta wack.

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted August 14, 2005 11:47 AM  
you can also cut a frames where top ball joints mount, and move them..its alot easier and most tracks wont say anything about it...

track_trash_66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted August 14, 2005 04:19 PM  
you mean cut the tip of the a frame and move it? or what ? that dont seem to safe

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted August 14, 2005 08:47 PM  
no take out the ball joint, and enlarge the hole, then tack weld until you get your settings then weld it up..

on my car i cut the center out off the frame mounts and ran a frame rog diagonal..

but the ball joint deal is easier, and faster.. just leave enough where you can change settings with spacers also..ill try to take some pics and post...

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted August 15, 2005 06:37 AM  
We use a left upper arm on the rightside to get our caster.We end up with 9 degrees on the rs and 4 or 5 on the left with PS.It works really well.

track_trash_66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted August 15, 2005 11:08 AM  
think im going to try that first , that away if it dont feel right to me i can put the old one back on. will i notice that big of a difference? and do i leave the left side alone or do i run the right side on the left too?

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted August 15, 2005 12:08 PM  
Yes you will notice a difference and no leave the left on the left.One of our cars has always run this setup and the other didn't. Changed the other car to this setup and the driver said it was faster and easier to drive.After a couple of weeks bent the right side up and was forced to put a rs back on and it was horrible.You will find you can get more + caster on the rs with this method.Do not try this much caster stagger without ps!!

[This message has been edited by Speedway65 (edited August 15, 2005).]

track_trash_66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted August 15, 2005 03:22 PM  
what kind of affect does it put on the car ? or is it just less stearing? I like the way it looks on my car , cant wait to try it. Ill let you know how it goes

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted August 15, 2005 08:28 PM  
caster/camber dramaticly effects the way the car goes in and comes off the turns. right set up will be better than scaling anytime...

CrazyT
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 79
posted August 17, 2005 03:18 PM  
Does this left side upper a-arm thing actually work? I need more caster but i am already smashing the header. The left upper sounds pretty good but does it actually work and what else does it mess up?

Tim D

track_trash_66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted August 17, 2005 07:06 PM  
im still waiting to try it out get to sat, im going to take the right side with me just incase i dont like it. hope i do cause im its really close in the points and i cant affort to mess up. I also hope i dont get d q for it , it doest say nothing about it in the rules but o well. I do like the way it looks now and both tie rods are perfectly level so dont think i coulda hurt anything. Ill post how it worked on sun morning

powerglides
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 374
posted August 18, 2005 05:15 AM  
Just move the holes back on the mount as far as u can get. You will have to grind one side of the bolt head flat to go against the back of the mount. Then weld rollbar gussets over them tell them they got ripped out. I just drilled the back hole first the bolted a arm on and used it as a guide for front hole.

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted August 18, 2005 05:39 AM  
Won 6 features this year and 4 last year with this setup.At first i thought it would never work but after doing it im a believer now.

[This message has been edited by Speedway65 (edited August 18, 2005).]

track_trash_66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted August 20, 2005 11:27 PM  
well count me in as a believer, ran it tonight for the first time, had to run a makeup feature that got rained out. car was alot more stable in the corners and would go anywhere i pointed it. i moved from 10th to 5th in only a few laps ( roller rocker broke though so that kinda ended my night) gotta say i did like it though and dont plan on changeing it) so thanks for everyones input

88S RACING
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 8
posted August 23, 2005 11:23 AM  
Does this work on metrics only or has anyone tried this on a Camaro? I have the same problem with the caster and this sounds like the answer if it will work on a Camaro.

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted August 24, 2005 07:01 AM  
Are the camaro arms offset or are they symetrical?

88S RACING
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 8
posted August 24, 2005 08:10 AM  
I tried this last night, putting the lt/upper on the right with a camaro and it would even bolt up. It looked all wrong in the geometry. It looks like on a rt/upper the rear part of the control arm is shorter in back. When you swap them it moves the upper ball joint way in front of the lower. If i remember correctly on the right side you want the upper ball joint behind the lower ball joint for caster? Does any know if there is a control arm that will fit a 75-81 camaro that is longer on top that will give you more room for adjustment. I've heard astro van uppers 58 impala uppers, does anyone know for sure? I need more adjustment(shim the rear) for caster without killing the camber. Thanks Scott

bejamin66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted September 04, 2005 09:41 AM  
I tried this it seems to work great. The only question is that the car felt like it was bottoming out in the corner on the right side or should I say dragging the frame? What spring is everyone using. I had a 1100 in the car. Can anyone answer.

[This message has been edited by bejamin66 (edited September 04, 2005).]

bejamin66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted September 05, 2005 03:09 PM  
Well it seem to work better on the bigger track 1/2 mile than 3/8 track.
Started the feature 12th and won. Started the second feature 12th and was up to forth before I broke a axle. It sure does work. Is this legal in IMCA? Anyone

CrazyT
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 79
posted September 07, 2005 06:39 PM  
How did you guys end up with your shims on the rf? With no shims on the rear bolt and about an inch of shims on the front bolt and with my angle finder i am still showing 10-11 degrees of caster. My lf caster is showing 6 degrees of caster should it be to the negative side a little or leave it positive?

I like the way it looks on there and man it clears up a lot of room for the headers.


track_trash_66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted September 07, 2005 07:12 PM  
u sure the a frame is not bent?

CrazyT
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 79
posted September 08, 2005 02:06 AM  
The frame is straight. Why do you say that how do you have your shims?

track_trash_66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 50
posted September 08, 2005 05:50 PM  
i have mine about an inch in both but i dont have a caster camber gauge though so i dont know what exactly my caster is set at.but it did improve the the way it handles

bejamin66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted September 08, 2005 07:11 PM  
Back bolt I have a 1 inch front maybe 1 3/4 to 2. Couldn't believe the difference.

CrazyT
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 79
posted September 10, 2005 10:55 PM  
I just got home from the track and the car really drove a lot better. I led half the race with the carb laying out half way down the straightaway on a half mile track. The thing ended up dying out and i pulled in the pits, then went back out and it didn't miss a bit. Anyway i finished 5th but then got caught with illegal heads....that i have run most of the year......I SMELL A RAT...lol. Oh well thats the way things go. Count my as a believer in this little trick.

Koolaid
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 82
posted September 11, 2005 07:10 PM  
It sounds like you guys are running around 10 degrees of caster on one side and around 5 on the other - is this correct? Are you all running stock powersteering pumps? How many lap features do you run and if you are running that much caster split how are you keeping the fluid in a stock pump? Also if it's really the caster split you are looking for have you tried going down to like 1 and 6 so you aren't working the pump as hard? Maybe I'm way off, but this seems like a HUGE amount of caster to run in a front end?

RACEINMUD
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 323
posted September 12, 2005 12:05 PM  
Hope its Ok to jump in here. Looking at trying the Left upper on the right side next time out. What numbers should I shoot for on caster/camber. small 3/8 mile track. Thanks, Race

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted September 12, 2005 12:23 PM  
We use 9 positive-RF 4to5 positive LF caster
LF camber 1 positive using a Moog k6218 offset shaft and rf is about 3-5 negative camber using the same k6218 shaft flipped the opposite way.With this high of caster stagger you MUST use power steering.Just remember with this much when you turn the wheels to the right it will dewedge the car somewhat.As for the PS pump we lose very little fluid from it and have been using the same one for the past 3 seasons.

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Speedway65 (edited September 12, 2005).]

bejamin66
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 27
posted September 12, 2005 04:16 PM  
I will tell you this work very well. Since I change it on my car to two LF fronts I have won three races races start in the 6th row. And the front row. I would of made top three the other night but broke a axle.

Fatboy87
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 1
posted September 16, 2005 08:00 AM  
Guys, I was wondering about the MUST need for power steering. Is it the fact that with that much camber that the wheel base of the right side is now shorter than the left side? If that is true, without PS it would be a handfull down the straights.

DJR22
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 111
posted September 16, 2005 08:18 AM  
I was wondering about the "must use with power steering" too. Is it just like using power steering with a quickener?...everyone knows you should do it but they've never tried it without sort of thing?

------------------
-stand on it-

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted September 16, 2005 08:54 AM  
With that much CASTER it will turn into the corner almost by itself the reason for ps is when you have to turn back to the right it takes more force to overcome that amount of caster and caster split.We have run this setup for the last 5yrs with alot of success.This year we used it with PS and a quickner which works awesome its too bad they made a quickner illegal to run!As for the wheelbase difference,i really never thought about even checking it till now.I will try to measure it tonight!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Speedway65 (edited September 16, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Speedway65 (edited September 16, 2005).]

bobaluuu
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 474
posted September 18, 2005 07:58 PM  
has anyone thought about tire to frame rub on the right side are you running smaller tires.

maximus
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 21
posted September 19, 2005 09:49 AM  
I changed my car to this setup and had to run smaller tires all the way around (rf rubbed the frame with 275/60 went too 255/60 woked fine)last saturday was my first time to race the car like this and with no practise started last in heat and won that then won feature race with a field of 21 cars. Coming into curves car pretty much sets itself up. Now instead of fighting the wheel with both hands I used one. LOVE THE SETUP!

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted September 19, 2005 12:58 PM  
We run Hoosier e mods 27.5 with a roll of about 90 inchs on the RF and a 26.5 with a roll of about 86.5- 87 on the LF with 3 inch offsets on the fronts with very little rub.

    

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