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Author Topic:   Need help with handling?
J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 26, 2005 10:41 PM  
Ok guys I need some help here. For hot laps car handled pretty good. (Track still wet) Went out for the heat, and car handled great, better than it ever has before. Started on the poll, pulled to front by the end of back straight and the race was over. I was about 8 car links ahead at the checker. I could have set cruise control and munched on some snacks without a problem car handled so well. So I didn't change a thing before the feature. Now this is where the problem comes in. The track was a little dry slick for the feature, but not real bad. As soon as I hit turn one, I knew I had to put my snacks away. Car goes in good, but gets loose in the middle and wants to slide the rear right out from under me. Every corner, had to baby the gas and slow down before entering the turns. You can't win a race that way. Needless to say, I started dropping back.

What can I do to fix this problem? Car is a 86 LTD (Yes a FORD, please help anyway) 3500 pounds (3400 min) springs LF 925 RF 1300 LR 250 RR 200. Have no idea about cross, left or rear %. Run Hoosier 26.5 on left and 27.5 on right. If you need any more info on car let me know. Would be glad to help you help me. Thanks

Gene
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 396
posted June 27, 2005 02:46 AM  
I assume you have no jack screws ect ect. So just take stagger out of the car when the track dries out.

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 27, 2005 05:05 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by Gene:
I assume you have no jack screws ect ect. So just take stagger out of the car when the track dries out.

Nope, no jack screws allowed. Running in Pure Stock class.

Taking staggar out will tighten a car up?

Magic82
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted June 27, 2005 05:41 AM  
I am not sure what banking you are running but by the looks of the split in front springs I'd say you need to put a softer spring in the right front. Try and 1100 or even a 1000. Just my thought. Magic82

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted June 27, 2005 06:47 AM  
Well we run the samething there Yes a wonderful ford. Upfront we run lf 1048 rf 1178 and about the same on rear as you do. we weigh 3450 with lead in rear and put in with scales. We run a 2 to 3 inch stagger in heat and 1 to 2 in the mains. We run about a 25lb. split in the rear try a little less air preasure if track is not to rough i would change right front spring no more than a 150lb. split,air preasure,and yes straight up on the rear will help also. You might be a little slower in the heat with front spring change but what you want is to be good in the main feature i am sure. You really need to scale car and give me wheel weights and maybe we can share a little info sense we are so close in weight. Fellow ford man. Steve Dupree

jd97brian
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted June 27, 2005 12:51 PM  
My nephew is running a LTD also and we're putting it on the scales tonight and was wondering what kind of wheel weights to shoot for? He has a 1100 lf and 1300 rf 350lr and 225 rr for springs. Was also wondering what would be the best places to add the lead as most of it is over the rear end now. He is also having the problem with his getting real loose in the middle of the corner. We also run a 351 Cleveland in ours which is why we have a little heavier springs in the front since it's heavier than a Windsor. Thanks

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted June 27, 2005 07:22 PM  
Ok sounds good we started with a cleveland to heavy and hard to cool but a great motor. front springs are fine but need to lighten those rears i would go no less then 250lr 225 rr. Because of that heavier motor you will need that weight as far back as you can get it and not real low . Shoot for 52.5 to 54 left weight,rear as high as you can get without going to far over your minium weight,but if you go over so what you need weight in the rear. We got ours to 48.8 rear and sometimes i wish we had a little more. Cross weight around 49 to 52 maybe higher but move weight and check with driver in it to see what you do when you change. Most people think when you scale your car you have done something you have done nothing unless you change tire size,weight position,stagger and offset. Scaling is a big job be sur eand take your time. We only run in the main event around 50 cross it really helps the car to much cross will not help in some events. Check all you can with driver in car and right everything down including amount of gas to if you are holding a beer lol. Just get it right then when you ask for help you can go in the right direction. We are not a modifies and the weight on the back does not throw the car around like a pendulum or how ever you spell that stupid word. We have 200 added to ours and 90 is dead center but back as far as we can get it. If to much left weight is added you will push but check all. Goodluck and keep in touch.

jd97brian
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted June 27, 2005 09:18 PM  
Thanks for the help with the scaling numbers. After a few hours on the scales and moving some weight around and some springs we come up with 52.5 left, 53.3 rear, 52.4 cross with wheel weights of lf 837, rf 835,lr 1040, and rr 868. Do these numbers seem alright? Total weight of the car with the driver and 300lbs of lead is 3580 which is a lot heavier than the chevys but we also need the weight to keep from burning the tires off. We've ran a Windsor before but with our rules we can make a lot more power with the Cleveland and according to the scales its 38lbs. heavier. I've had pretty good luck with the Clevelands and we haven't had much of a heating problem. Again thanks for the help.

Brian

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 28, 2005 04:56 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by Magic82:
I am not sure what banking you are running but by the looks of the split in front springs I'd say you need to put a softer spring in the right front. Try and 1100 or even a 1000. Just my thought. Magic82

I had a softer spring on right front and it pushed pretty bad. I increased to the 1300 RF spring and got rid of the push, but now I am loose in the middle.

I don't have access to scales. I would love to be able to scale the car and see where I am at with %.

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted June 28, 2005 04:59 AM  
That looks real good to me and great rear %. If it seems a little tight and you dont want to change your driving style just take out a 100 lbs. You have alot of rear for runnin more weight than the other guys you might be able to loose some weight and still have traction and get closer to competitions weight. Also a good cross weight for a feature is usually around 49 to 50.5 so you can loose a little cross with a bigger left front and you need to get those rear springs with a 25 lb. split. Keep your 225 and go buy a 250 for the left at the moment you have way to much split in the rear. When you put that 250 instead of 350 you will gain more foward bite and again may be able to loose some lead to get closer to weight rules. Goodluck and great racing. On the lighter side this power thing on a cleveland to windsor i am not to sure about that lol I just built a long rod 351w with KB- 333 pistons and i think we just might have to run on the same track and check that power thing out lol Not putting it in till next sunday because we have been running 230 and above hear lately and need to get this carb. jet correctly first. Have a good one and talk to you soon. Steve

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 28, 2005 07:04 PM  
I read on here a long time ago about instead of running no staggar to run reverse staggar on a loose car to help tighten her up. If I try that, what other affects will it have on the car for the rest of track?


J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 28, 2005 07:05 PM  
When bolting weight in the car, should it be as low as possible? As high as possible? Does it make a differance and why?


Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted June 29, 2005 05:36 AM  
I think when mounting weight get it as high as you can to a point depends though on what your springs are and what you want. The higher the weight the more role over you will get but really probally trunk floor is high enough. Reverse stagger will tighten car all the way around the turn not really a good idea but trying it will be your choice.

devil wrench
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 178
posted June 29, 2005 10:52 AM  
we've won quite a few races with neg stagger, but it's a crutch for another problem...

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 29, 2005 11:50 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by devil wrench:
we've won quite a few races with neg stagger, but it's a crutch for another problem...

What other problem and how do I fix it?

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted July 01, 2005 02:21 PM  
I botled a little more weight in the rear of the car and if track goes dry slick will run no staggar. If it is still loose in the heat then I will try the reverse stagger and see how that does. Thanks for the help guys. Will let ya know what happens.


J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted July 02, 2005 09:46 PM  
Well we got rained out tonight, so will have to wait till next week to see if the changes helped.


    

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