Visit The Dirt Forum for More Information

Author Topic:   Only cheaters win, part deux!
0LT
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 38
posted June 20, 2005 11:01 AM  
The previous post with the same name got me to thinkin'.
If your called a cheater, you are or you ain't. So are you, or ain't you?
If you claim your car is 110% legal, you are lying. It may not be a performance enhancing "cheat" but I bet everyone has something illegal on thier car.
I had a street stock that pushed every single rule into the gray area. It was legal by most of the rules (except for the...). If you know what the techs are looking for, make that legal. Then change every other dang thing on the car that they aren't looking for.
Our rules state 9.5 to 1 compression, 52lb crank, any cast iron head, 2 barrel rochester carb. The way around a compression rule is a lightweight rotating assembly. Use lighteweight SIR rods, a 335 gram flat top piston from Probe, and world products heads. Expensive, YES. Fast, **** YES. Legal, YOU BET.
Pump gas. If your rules say this, tell you "pumped" the race fuel out of the barrel.

So lets be honest with each other. What is the worst cheating thing you have done that you never got caught for?

I myself did try the ole nitrous trick on an enduro car (Hey Beach, remember the shark?). A 1973 Mercury Marquis with 460. Nitrous made the car extremely loose down the straights, at least until the darn thing had an oil pan failure. The oil pan failed to catch the crank coming out of the block!
-0LT

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted June 20, 2005 12:56 PM  

 
Our rules say 1 12 volt passenger car battery It dont say anything about a 6 volt battery hooked in a series ( ya I know its a gray area) so now we are running 19.4 volts to the HEI system and WHAT a difference that made we run a .060 plug gap and went up 3 jet sizes was up 5 but that was a little to much gain a lot of power comming off the corner Here is a diagram of how we did In case you want to know

tin cup
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted June 20, 2005 03:06 PM  
Mixed in a little meth. to my pump gas for a factory stock one time. Not enough for a flame from the exhaust, but enough to keep the motor cool and win the race. lol. WE THREE KING'S BE STILLIN YO GOLD.

cobb
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 131
posted June 20, 2005 08:02 PM  
we run a blower, nitrous, a full tube frame, a brinn nextel cup tranny, two 1000cfm demon carbs, and 652c.i.d.--------is that cheating?

Racer X
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 256
posted June 20, 2005 08:21 PM  
We don't have many rules in outlaw mod so my car is 100 percent legal. As long as you have the G60's,no alum block and no quick change. Pretty much anything else goes.

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 20, 2005 08:30 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by iowa_dirt_track_girl:
Our rules say 1 12 volt passenger car battery It dont say anything about a 6 volt battery hooked in a series ( ya I know its a gray area) so now we are running 19.4 volts to the HEI system and WHAT a difference that made we run a .060 plug gap and went up 3 jet sizes was up 5 but that was a little to much gain a lot of power comming off the corner Here is a diagram of how we did In case you want to know

Dirt track girl, that is not a gray area, that is pitch black. Rules say only 1 12 volt. That doesn't mean you can run as many batteries as you like as long as only 1 of them is 12 volts and the rest are something else. Ask yourself this, "if the tech guy (or gal) sees it, will I be DQ'ed?" If the answer is yes, or even maybe, then it is not gray.


iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted June 20, 2005 08:53 PM  
Yes i was teched last week with this and I told them that if they was to have us run only one battery then the rules need to say. one battery per car. no more then or no less then 12 volts in no combination only passenger car batterys allowed.

Not writen as and this is right from the book...... 20. BATTERY/STARTER: One 12-volt passenger car battery only, must be in marine-type case, securely mounted to frame or roll cage in metal frame behind seat or in trunk area. Starter must bolt in OEM location. Must have capability of starting without being pushed or pulled. Must leave initial staging area on demand, unaided, or go to rear of that race.


And one more thing that is a gray area is " must be in marine-type case" every one that I know runs a steel battery box the weighs in at sometimes 50+ pounds now tell me is that marine

O by the way they just laughed when I told them about the battery, they shook there heads and let me go!!

[This message has been edited by iowa_dirt_track_girl (edited June 21, 2005).]

devil wrench
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 178
posted June 20, 2005 10:37 PM  
poorly written rules cost racers more money than any other thing in the world...

zeroracing
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1875
posted June 20, 2005 11:10 PM  
I disagree, women cost me more than anything.

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 20, 2005 11:37 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by iowa_dirt_track_girl:
20. BATTERY/STARTER: One 12-volt passenger car battery only. B]

The rules do say only 1 battery and that it has to be 12 volts. See your post above.

Now, if they saw it and let you go, well good for you. But, they should let everyone else do the same.

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted June 21, 2005 05:01 AM  
I am rolling on the floor and cant stop i finally figured out how the dirt track girl is running 35 lbs of air in the right side. For one all that weight from those batteries and the other i,ll bet she is running hydraulics off of one of the low riders from her area lol. Sorry dirt track girl i am just setting here thinking of those low riders that use to cruse through sonic full of batteries and lift one side then the other lol way to funny. Fill them trunks up with lead.

robhbk24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 372
posted June 21, 2005 07:00 AM  
it says only 1 12 volt battery, and she has only one 12 volt battery, it does not directly say only 1 battery period just only 1 12 volt meaning by the letter of the rules i say she is legal, prob is with these grey areas is that in orde4r to eliminate them the rules would have to be 100pages long.lol

DangerZoneRacing
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 176
posted June 21, 2005 08:27 AM  
It also only states "one 12 volt passenger car battery". If you put a 6 volt motorcycle battery in the I say its completely legal. 2 different types of batteries there.

juni
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 184
posted June 21, 2005 09:09 AM  
Its called creative interpetation of the rules. not cheating OH ya check my spelling that might be incorrect it depends on what neck of the woods your from. LOL

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted June 21, 2005 09:56 AM  
Now i thought that racing was to be a creative sport use your mind so to say?

So i called the director of operation for IMCA and asked him about the little battery deal and told them that the rules dont clearly say that you cant run a 6 volt battery and after about 5 minutes of argguing finally he sais that I was right so they are going to change the rule for next year but it would be Legal for this year!

So the power of a women still rules the road and track LOL

[This message has been edited by iowa_dirt_track_girl (edited June 21, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by iowa_dirt_track_girl (edited June 21, 2005).]

sideways
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 715
posted June 21, 2005 10:11 AM  
Only one 12 volt battery.So if I was to put a 12 volt battery in for weight and used it for the gauges and used a 24 volt battery to run my frige and a 110v converter then I would still be legal and have frosty beverages on board.Hummm sounds legal to me.lol On a seroius note I do belive she is in the gray area were we all want to live.Part of the game.I think it is just fine.And I always have been told if they see it and it passes well then whats the problem????

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 21, 2005 10:13 AM  
Geez, yall sound like lawyers. I still disagree. I see what and why yall are saying that it is fine. Dirt girl did the right thing and called to check and actually won that arguement. Good for her. But that is not the way it was intended (and most of you know that, just choose to see it the way it will benefit you the most) and that is why they are going to rewrite the rule for next year.

The way I see the rule written, it states: "one 12 volt passenger car battery ONLY" Notice how the only comes after everything else, meaning that that one battery is all you are allowed to have. Not allowed any other batteries no matter what type of battery or how many volts.

I guess I just don't see the gray like yall do. I might have to send yall a copy of my rules so you can point out all the gray areas for me. Can always use the help.


sideways
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 715
posted June 21, 2005 10:15 AM  
Oh and my favorite racing phrase was by Smokey Yunick "defensive cheating"My father in law asked about Nextel Cup says "How many do you reckon are cheatin anyway"I said how many tried to qualify?At least 43 will be on Sunday.lol Oh boy I am going to get it for that one.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted June 21, 2005 10:16 AM  

 
Heres our car

sideways
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 715
posted June 21, 2005 10:17 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by J3:
Geez, yall sound like lawyers. I still disagree. I see what and why yall are saying that it is fine. Dirt girl did the right thing and called to check and actually won that arguement. Good for her. But that is not the way it was intended (and most of you know that, just choose to see it the way it will benefit you the most) and that is why they are going to rewrite the rule for next year.

The way I see the rule written, it states: "one 12 volt passenger car battery ONLY" Notice how the only comes after everything else, meaning that that one battery is all you are allowed to have. Not allowed any other batteries no matter what type of battery or how many volts.

I guess I just don't see the gray like yall do. I might have to send yall a copy of my rules so you can point out all the gray areas for me. Can always use the help.


Its NEVER cut and dried J3.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted June 21, 2005 12:42 PM  
LOL at sideways
I suppose that the ram coupler that I put in a few weeks ago would be considered cheating also( wait a minute NOW thats cheating LOL)

Hey what about having one 6 volt lantern battery to run the lights the rules dont say anything about flashlight batterys LMAO

sideways
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 715
posted June 21, 2005 12:45 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by iowa_dirt_track_girl:
LOL at sideways
I suppose that the ram coupler that I put in a few weeks ago would be considered cheating also( wait a minute NOW thats cheating LOL)

Hey what about having one 6 volt lantern battery to run the lights the rules dont say anything about flashlight batterys LMAO


Yeah that might work.Wonder what theyed say if you was to run your lights off of 150 hearing aid batteries.lol


sideways
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 715
posted June 21, 2005 12:51 PM  
And oh yes I have cheated blatantly cheated in the past,but then again we all were that night.There wasnt a restictoer plate in the field that was unaltered.Go karts at fair races no tech no worries.But they musta got word tech them all the next year.And nope didnt get caught was in next class up.Did learn a valuable lesson,dont tell your daughter her kart was illegal when she is 12 she likes to tell that kinda stuff.lol Told the promoter of a new track opening I was helping try and run and design the track boy did I get a odd look.But its funny now 6 years later.lol

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted June 21, 2005 01:38 PM  
One year the rules stated no aluminum for panels so i got a fiberglass hood cut it to size and voila.But some body complained about it and i explained that no where in the rules did it say i couldn't have it,but the following year it said no fiberglass or aluminum.I think in the last 2 yrs our creative engineering has been responsible for a whole bunch of new rules and rewrites.

bobaluuu
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 474
posted June 21, 2005 08:22 PM  
I havent seen a set of rules yet without this disclaimer"If it doesn't say it, then you can't do it". Also Im not an engineer but I think the 18 volt issue would burn up some ignition parts??

------------------
Light it up, Baby!

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted June 22, 2005 09:58 AM  
Good thinking bobaluu. Hopefully someone on here can tell me why you run 14.4 and 16 volt batterys then

When I talked to MSD about this they said they they wanted a MIN. of 13.5 volts going to the dis.

When I told them that I had 18 volts going to it they said that it might burn the module up or coil they wasnt for sure so they told me to keep a eye out for heated up coils cause when you run a BIG plug gap it will heat up the coil cause the coil runs on a primary and secondary system the longer the gap in the plug the longer the coil takes to fire so it might have a tendancey to get hot..

It hasnt yet and we have had two nights on this system

Raz_900
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 635
posted June 23, 2005 08:06 PM  
And everyone told me I'm crazy for using a 16 volt battery (measures 17.2-17.3v when new). You don't know the ignition isn't working at it's max unless you've tried it on 12v and 16v. I know it'll run on 12v, but how do you know it wouldn't be better with more?

The best rule I like is the word 'stock' or 'OEM' in anything. Our rules say "OEM crank and rods only. No lightening of crank or rods permitted. Cast or hypertectic style replacement flat top pistons only". Half the cars have JE, SRP, Manley etc piston stickers on them. Last time I checked, not a one of them made a cast or hyper piston. And other guys have been told Eagle SIR rods and 'cast steel' cranks are legal because they're 'stock appearing and stock replacement'. Never knew Eagle was an OEM GM supplier.


DangerZoneRacing
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 176
posted June 23, 2005 09:25 PM  
This is right out of our rules...."If in doubt, if it looks trick it is probably not allowed. " Well that leaves the door wide open......cuz aint nothin look trick to me
LOL. I dont cheat....I just test the limits of the rules. Theres a difference lol. All in all I dont really have anything thats illegal....maybe my 104+ octane boost.

iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted June 23, 2005 11:20 PM  
here is a rule from the class i race in

"Engine must be strictly stock for that make/model and in its original mounts"

and like most have pointed out that nothing more than a 305 came in 81-88 montes

LOL

most guys are running 350 to 420 cid
LOL
yep i know if you can't beat them might as well join them

drive hard or drive home

tin cup
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 40
posted June 24, 2005 03:26 PM  
Our rule's state "All engines and component's must be stock and OEM." I seen inside the motor of one car at my engine builder's. Eagle crank, H-beam rod's,srp pistons. He told me "If I don't spend atleast $3,000 on just the short block, I wouldn't be able to keep up." Someone also told me that somebody is using aftermarket head's. A couple of guy's recently beat some street stock's that their rule's state,"cast iron block and head's." It's a **** shame that you have to cheat to win. Crate motor's are the only way to go. It's one thing to interpet the rule's, but to straight up break the rule's is pathetic. For those that cheat, don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back.

o5racer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted June 24, 2005 06:54 PM  
My favorite is the ones that say engine must be stock appearing.
Nick

DangerZoneRacing
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 176
posted June 24, 2005 07:18 PM  
Ya whats up with that....those rules that say engine must remain stock appearing? So what....you have to leave the a/c compressor on it? What would be considered "stock appearing" for a engine? The engine in the Monte I drive on the street looks stock appearing to me....The aluminum intake and edelbrock carb, hedmen headers, and edelbrock elite valve covers. Now thats stock appearing right? lol.

beachracing
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 94
posted June 24, 2005 10:33 PM  
Lloyd, I vaguely remember the shark. Must have been the first enduro back in 2002, am I right.

97dirt
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 94
posted June 25, 2005 08:05 AM  
Hey Cobb, How'ed you hide that blower? I got caught the first nite with mine!LMAO

akadirtracer7
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 217
posted June 26, 2005 07:17 AM  
That battery thing wouldn't fly at the track I run. They would change the rule right on the spot and if you come back like that next week your going to stay on the trailer.Our rules had nothing but battery must be in a container.I used 2 6 volt golf cart batts that weighed 120 lbs sitting in a tray over the rear axle so they could be moved left or right as needed,thats what they didn't like,but they didn't change that.The problem with rules is alot of times they benefit those of you that have the bucks to buy the high dollar cheating parts.This year they changed to headers ticked those off who bought the big$ brezinski stuff.Been telling them to do the same with intakes.then they can toss there high $ marine intake and get a cheaper aluminum one that everybody can afford.Changing to headers has help make more contenders on race night.thats what I like to see different winners.Or racing on a more equal level.I got tossed from the factory stocks because I was in there face every week without the big$ parts. The whiners came out of the woodwork and I was running a ford on top of it.Maybe thats why they all whinned.

iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted June 26, 2005 09:29 AM  
??? how did you hide the push truck for that ford??? you know to get to the front


just kiddin i thought everyone would get a laugh out of that

drive hard or drive home

nine finger
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 76
posted June 26, 2005 05:17 PM  
why in the world do we put up all the different rules. It would be so fun to visit a lot of different tracks. what is cheating anyways i will guarantee you no car is legal in every way. who am i to call anybody a cheater, I have my tricks and you have yours.Dont be a sore looser !!!!!

J3
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 188
posted June 26, 2005 10:54 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by nine finger:
why in the world do we put up all the different rules. It would be so fun to visit a lot of different tracks. what is cheating anyways i will guarantee you no car is legal in every way. who am i to call anybody a cheater, I have my tricks and you have yours.Dont be a sore looser !!!!!

You shouldn't make gaurantee's that you can't keep. Between me, my dad and my brother, we have 3 cars and I assure you they are all legel based on the rules for our track. You can come check them out yourself with our rules and I gaurantee you will not find 1 thing that is illegal. Some people do play by the rules, maybe not that many, but some.


akadirtracer7
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 217
posted June 27, 2005 06:07 AM  
toolman the car had a nickname of boeing 347 givin to it by the ones it beat.As far as the push truck I borrowed the one you use. LOL

[This message has been edited by akadirtracer7 (edited June 27, 2005).]

iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted June 27, 2005 09:09 AM  
hey don't get mad that you drive a ford i was just smiling about what i was typing at the time i almost didn't get it all typed i was laughing so hard (kinda like i am doing now)
you didn't borrow my push truck because i don't have one (I DRIVE A CHEVY) ROFLMAO

HAVE A GOOD DAY AND REMEMBER MAKE SOMEONE ELSE SMILE TODAY

drive hard or drive home

akadirtracer7
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 217
posted June 27, 2005 10:58 AM  
Same here dude just smilin like I do when the flag is in my hand...............

thrill hill
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 59
posted June 27, 2005 09:35 PM  
Have you seen the rules that say if it is not stock don't use it? What a laugh if you aren't going to be a contender.

iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted June 27, 2005 11:33 PM  
isn't it funny that if others do it it is cheating but if you do it it is creatively bending the rules or using the grey area of them LOL

just food for thought

drive hard or drive home

cobb
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 131
posted June 28, 2005 08:40 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by 97dirt:
Hey Cobb, How'ed you hide that blower? I got caught the first nite with mine!LMAO

it's a very small blower. it fits inside the carb

DangerZoneRacing
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 176
posted June 28, 2005 08:55 PM  
lol Like i said in a earlier post Iowatoolman "I dont cheat....I just test the limits of the rules.". Back in 97, the tech guys got some of our competiters over there asking questions about my car (my dad owned the car and i drove), so they came over and started looking at things and kind of chuckled....they took one look at my dad....held up a set of the rules ....and told him...."this is black and this is white....now read". My dad use to do some crazy stuff that was never listed in the rules. Most of the tech guys said they never even would have thought about stuff like he use to do....they said they were going to have to look at our car every week to see what hes done and go back and rewrite the rules...every week. Keeps the tech guys on there toes, scratching there heads, and thinking. I do miss racing with my dad, It wasnt just the joy of driving the car, it was the joy of hearing my dads old "back in the day" stories and watching him puzzle and argue (no wait...discuss is a better term) with the tech guys. lmao...oh the good ol days.

[This message has been edited by DangerZoneRacing (edited June 28, 2005).]

cambra
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 33
posted July 06, 2005 02:57 AM  
I beleive that a lot of peolpe in my class are cheatin. because if i had a stock small block theirs no way in **** i could keep up um.the cars are gettin faster every time.I believe that their just gettin better at cheatin and not gettin caught.when i first started ran only 305's and won races with that even the championship.. now try and run that in my class, you'll never make it even close to the top five, even with a 350 you got be be on it 24/7 and say a prayer. that tells me that every ones gettin better at cheatin and gettin away with it.

thrill hill
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 59
posted July 06, 2005 08:45 PM  
We put the show on for the people who sit thier butts down in the stands and the promoter likes thier butts in that spot except to by the dogs and canned beverages. That is how he makes it and tries to make the 5th place and down happy with thier pay. 10-4.

dee 61
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted July 09, 2005 11:03 AM  
point blank (if you aint cheatin you aint winning cheat to win

dee 61
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted July 09, 2005 11:05 AM  
cheating is in the eye of the beerholder

Stevei2i0
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 54
posted July 10, 2005 09:41 AM  
The #1 rule at Our track says, "Its only cheatin, if You get caught". So the ones with the most money win, and the rest of Us just have fun.Ive had several third and fourth place finishes.Guess Im not playin by the rules, Huh?

Back to the Archives