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Author Topic:   Urgent reply PLEASE on set up ? Ford
Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted February 24, 2005 05:07 PM  
Hey guys need just a couple of ? answered please if you have them please. 1 Ok right now i am running a rollout on the front of the car which is 87 1/4 RF and 83 3/4 LF will a bigger left front give it more right rear and loosen car up a little. This car cannot run straight up at are track on the rear because it likes to push even on a dry slick. 2 I am running a sway bar in the front will taking it off loosen up the car and make it turn better, I have tried it both ways but have really done alot of changes and a little lost hear but think iam on the right track. 3 Ok lets say i run a 87 on the right rear and a 85 on the left rear with 19 and 15 lbs. the car will turn good there and thats with a 5 inch offset on the rear and 2 inch in the front. So what would be the difference if i ran a say 86 on the right but ran a 2inch offset there and a 85 on the left but left it with a 5 inch offset. Same as what i had or because of rool center what can i exspect. OK we cannot use weight jacks and we run a 7" wheel and the car weighs 3486 with a little weight in the back and with driver. With the 40 lbs weight in the back are % are L 53.1 rear 45.9 cross 50.6 right 46.9 right. The track we run is a 5/16 with 13% banking. We are 400 lbs above weight limit so we are at a diss. adv. to several cars. Also the car is a 113 wheel base and cannot change it the other are mostly 108 should i just burn the darn thing or what lol. Thanks Steve Dupree

AtomicPunk
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 130
posted February 24, 2005 08:46 PM  
Steve: hope I can help. First off IMO dump the sway bar. Sway bars ae for asphalt, on dirt a sway bar soes not allow the car to roll and gain side bite. In theory, going to a taller lf should gain you some rr. Your %s look pretty good. Alittle lite on rear % and a little heavy on left%. Is this a hobby stock? What kind of tires? Ford LTD? What type of track, does it go mostly dry slick? What tire pressures do you typically run?

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted February 25, 2005 04:18 AM  
The car is a 73 torino and air preasure is RF 19 RR 19 LF 14 LR 16. Yes we call them a streetstock but they are more like most peoples hobby stocks. Also going to a bigger left front should help my ackerman i would think. 9.5 compression,2 barral min.3000. lbs. 7" wheels no beed locks.

racin78p
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 333
posted February 25, 2005 06:57 AM  
Melt the sway bar. You're rear percent is not too good. I'd think way too much weight on that front end. It could cause the nose to dive into the turns, but with little traction on a dry slick, push like a mad dog. For dry slick, you can try to run less stagger in the rear (or try reverse stagger, some guys I know do for dry slick), but the numbers you have posted are similar to what I run. My biggest problem with a cat that pushed bad, was the rear springs and rear trailing arm locations (GM metric car). Slight adjustments there and away she went! Sorry I can't help more, would have to look it over to say more.

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racin78p
if it ain't fun, then don't run

AtomicPunk
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 130
posted February 25, 2005 07:44 AM  
Racin78 is right. IMO your %s should be closer to 53% rear (or as much as you can get)51% cross, 51-52% left side. While the car is on scales play with pressures and off sets, move your weight around, see what happens. Put your car on a diet if you can. Cut off as much material as the rules allow. What springs are in the front? You may need a stiffer rf spring to keep the nose from diving.

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted February 25, 2005 08:30 AM  

 
Front spring rate RF 1200 LF 1100 as far as nose dives it doesnt seem to even watching it on tape we tape every race and practice. As far as reverse stagger on the rear it will push even worse. As far as the rear weight well iam not sure but you know what weight is to horse power and alot of guys are at like 3050 lbs. we normally run a 2 inch stagger in the rear with the left being smaller and the car is ok but sometimes loose out, If straight up is run pushes way to much even on tacky track. With a tacky track and 2 inch stagger its really a pretty fast car with the % its has just not sure if adding like a 100 more to the rear would help or hurt because of lose of HP. The car started off weighing 3720 with me in it and we are down to what we gave you with a 40 lb weight in the rear to get those %. Sprimg weights on the rear are RR 210 LR 235. At one of are bigger tracks we have hear it doesnt have that problem but the track has bigger turns even though it is flatter the track we run on is like a paper clip. We really enjoy racing but i think all the money i dropped in this ford was a waste the track just has to be perfect for it and that only happened once last year and it run away in the heat and took 2nd in the main and the car weighed 3520 at that time. Well keep writing guys we have a big race the 4th,5th and 6th so all help is welcome i want the car as good as i can get it. Thanks Steve

AtomicPunk
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 130
posted February 25, 2005 02:07 PM  
Gotta lose more weight if you can. Even up your left side and right side %s a little closer like I said. If your not getting any dive your front springs and or shock are too stiff. Borrow a set of 1000 lf and 1100 rf. Can you run a brake bias valve (front to rear)? How about shutting off rf brake. If your track stays fairly smooth try dropping your pressures to something like 19rf, 16lf, 17-18rr, 14lr. If your rf tire rolls over on the sidewalls more than, say, 2 inches or so, put more 1-2 more pounds in it. If you're on the sidewall you lose whatever traction the tread gives you.

Busch
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted February 25, 2005 07:11 PM  
Try raising the back end of the car a little and swap sides with the rear springs. The reason for raising the rear is to induce some roll steer. The spring swap should loosen on entry and drop some stagger to help getting off the corner.

racin78p
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 333
posted February 26, 2005 01:15 AM  
I know it's like apples and oranges comparing GM metric to Ford, but some things are basically standard when setting up a car and making adjustments. If I could see your car, I'd have a better idea of what might work. Anyway,...
I say again your rear AND cross don't look good to me. Since you run 7" rims I assume your guys run DOT tires? That can make tire pressure changes a bit more difficult. Like Atomic Punk said try adjusting RF (lower it some) until it's rolling over on the side too much. Be careful not to blow a tire though. For sure, LOOSE WEIGHT! Get rid of everything you can, then ADD it back where the scales say to. This is to get your percents better. And I wouldn't be afraid to be heavy (with added weight/lead) because sometimes it can actually make you faster. Of course this is if it helps the car hook up. 113" wheel base isn't bad for a big high banked track. Small tracks yes, it can be a big dis-advantage.

Really, what I'd do is:


Dump/cut weight as much as possible
Get a bunch of lead bars ready

Scale the car adding weight (mostly to the left rear, but watch your percents) till you get better numbers

Get the right rear tire/wheel tucked a little more in. Like 4" or maybe even 3" offset. I run 4", makes a big difference

Everything you do while scaling, WRITE IT DOWN! And when you go to the track, change a little at a time, writing down what the change did to the car, until it gets to where you are happy with it. You need to annotate track conditions, track temp, weather, all that stuff. They have an effect also.

If you can't get it scaled right away, take two 50 lb. lead bars to the track with you. Run a few hot laps. Add one bar on the left rear. Run a few hot laps. Notice the difference. Add the other bar on the left and run a few hot laps. Notice the difference. Simple quick changes that can tell you that more rear percent is needed, at least for that track for that day. Changing your left front tire pressure can tighten/loosen the car up also. I don't know what else I can add that might give you some clues,...

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racin78p
if it ain't fun, then don't run

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted February 26, 2005 07:29 AM  
Hey thanks guys racing 78 well i dumped swaybar and thats about it unless i cut some out of the roof. I have taking everything else off. The RF will run over on side wall anything less than 19 lb So i usually i run it between 19 and 21 never anymore never any less. I can scale the car today just have to find the lead i was told you wanted 53% on the left i know i need more rear and right now i have a 40lb weight on the left right above the wheel I think what really threw me off was this last race we went to we had alot of rain the week before and the track we raced in El Paso the week before all it did was stay slick all day the car took 3 in heat and 6th in main if it would have started poll probally would have stayed there it was a one lane track. So when we went to Las Cruces i thought it might do the same so i set it up with RR 84 3/4 with4" offset and the LR 82 1/4 with 2" offset the car did ok but got loose on exit once but i was a little high where i usually run so went lower on the track and the car stayed in 3rd the track was already going dryslick. So we came back and stupid me left the right tire alone so had 84 3/4 with 4" and put a 85 with a 2" offset on the rear. Dont know what i was thinking but tires should have been other way around. OK so you think 100lbs put in the back would help more than hurt and what percentage on the left side should i go for should i try to keep it arond 53 or do i want a little less leftside weight i relize less left weight should help it not push. If you have time let me know racing 78 and thanks to all who have put in comments. Steve PS Oh frame heights right now are LF 6 1/2 LR 7 1/2 RF 7 1/2 RR 8

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted February 27, 2005 05:38 AM  
What % do i want from left and right sides i now the cross and is it different for a short track

supwitchew
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 122
posted February 27, 2005 08:51 PM  
If you plan to run a Torino, you should plan to weigh quite a bit more than the other cars. You're simply not going to get 50% rear weight and still weigh 3000 unless you are allowed to move the motor way back, remove the floor, etc...even then you would probably need an aluminum block and a HUGE helium balloon tied to your front bumper. I would follow one of the previous recommendations to switch rear springs around. That should help loosen you up a little. I actually had to put stiffer rear springs in my Torino and it seemed to help a lot. Also, check to make sure your front geometry is not off. I had a push one time and couldn't figure out why. It turns out that my toe somehow got toed in 1/2 inch. I put it back to where it should have been and the push went away. Just a thought. Also, for a Torino, around 52% left should be fine and 50-51% cross would be a good start. Then you can adjust your cross depending on how you seem to be entering the corner.

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted February 28, 2005 06:21 AM  
Hey guys well here is where we stopped yesterday so we are a little better. You know i got to thinking last year we took a cpl of 2nd in the main and won a few heats and the car was weighing about 3540. Well over the winter and during reskinning we got it down to 3400 with me in the car but with no weight only had a 45.9 rear %. Ok now after yesterday this is what we have. Left 53.1 Rear 47.0 RF-LR 49.7 Right 46.9. We also checked several of are offsets and seen the change on the scale. This is the first year that i have played with moving the rear end right or left with offsets on the rear and WOW what a chage on this car. I figured maybe 2inches of offset to one side would equal say the same as 1" of tire height but that not true alot more weight transfers with those offsets than that.I can change that cross weight and rear weight by a couple of degrees just by changing my left front tire i mean the height of it i have always run a 215/70 15 on the left front with a 83 3/4 roll out. I changed it to a 255/60/15 with a 84 3/4 the right front roll out is 87 1/4. Thanks for all the imput and open to more this is just one big race coming up this weekend so just wanted to make a good show but we still have the rest of the year. Thanks Steve Dupree

Eljojo
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 968
posted February 28, 2005 06:29 AM  
Supwitchew is right on about the weight of, not just yours, but all Ford street stocks. They are inheirantly nose heavy. So in order to make the car handle, you'll have to disregard the total weight and cncentrate on the percentages.
Swap the rear springs and gather up some weight. I have had to fill jerry cans with water and chain them in the car for ballast before. I have a friend who has a piece of RR track welded to his frame. You can find weight...take a whole lot of weight with you to practice.
Add to the left rear. (forget about the "pendulum effect" put it as far back as you can get it. After dropping the sway bar your push may be gone. As you add weight to the lr your cross will go up. Drop air in the lr or add to the rr to adjust. You need more air in the rf already so add about 5 lbs before you start. There will come a time when your lap times begin to fall off...if everything you do helps and that doesn't happen...you didn't bring enought weight.
I'm glad to help you because you helped me... on one dark and dreary December morning you brightened my day with a photo of a doll and a rod--my two most favorite things in life!

Steve Dupree
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 316
posted February 28, 2005 06:49 AM  
thanks it looks like you and i wrote about the sametime this morning. Yea as far as that pic i posted they took it off i didnt think it was bad but the webmaster must have got a complaint. We have lots of pics of last years car and this years car on geminikid1 profile on yahoo. Yes i do think you are right about the weight when we started last year we weighed 3720 and took 2nd in the heat,trophy and main so iam sure with right % the weight will not be a big thing up to a point. Thanks

    

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