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Author Topic:   Another sway bar question
backwoodsracer
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted January 12, 2005 05:35 PM  
I know this subject has been debated since the begining of recorded history but I still can't decide whether to run or not to run a front sway bar.I have been running one the past few seasons with great sucess but have seen mor and more competitors dumping them.I have tried without it but didn't like the feel of the car without it seemed like way too much body roll.One of the crew guys said the car was lifting the lf off the corners.I suspect with the soft spring setup I run That it won't work well without a bar.What do you guys/gals that run without them suggest for spring setup.The car is a metric chassis with stock a-frames and spindles 900rf 750lf 1 1/4 front sway bar.175lr 150rr bilstien stock mount shocks all around.Rear suspension is in stock configuration with rear square at ride height.1/2 mile D shaped track with approx 7 degrees banking and is usually dry slick.I am trying to come up with something to try at practice in april any suggestions would be appriciated

Kent
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted January 12, 2005 08:13 PM  
I run a metric chassis without a sway bar and my car hooks up pretty decent. I think with the setup that you have you need to change your front springs. I would put a 1000# on LF and a 1250# on the RF. With the setup that you have I would imagine that you probably had a bad push in the corners. The rolling sensation that makes you uncomfortable is the RR tire digging in but that only works if you have your wedge and stagger set properly. Remember - If you add stagger you take wedge out of the car and vise versa. With too light of a spring on the RF your whole car will just lean over in the corners and will not allow the wedge you put into the car to work. Street Stock Chassis book from Steve Smith Publications can really go into detail about this! Good luck!

ruggs66
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 193
posted January 12, 2005 09:16 PM  
Kent are you saying that the stiffer springs will get rid of a push?

Or getting rid of the sway bar will kill the push?

Kent
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted January 13, 2005 02:59 AM  
What I am saying is that I think the car is leaning in the corners instead of transfering weight to the RR. Wedge is set with the right front and left rear - If you draw an imaginary line between the two and can imagine the car using that line as a fulcrum when the car rolls you can see that that is how weight can be transfered to the right rear tire. If you do not have a stiff enough spring on the right front you will not have that " Imaginary" fulcrum point and the car will just lean over going thru the corners. With a metric chassis car when you set up the front end geometry there is only so much you can do with it depending on track rules. One way you can help add wedge is to install a 1" spacer above the LR spring. Weld a 3" length of 4" dia. pipe in the upper spring seat on the LR and slide your spacer over the pipe when putting your spring in. I use 1" sq tubing for this. I also installed hidden adjustable shims on the front of my car and have the RF shim 9/16" lower than on the left side. Make sure you have your lower A-Arms where the center of the ball joint and the center of the inside pivot point are level. this should put you in the ball park. This lets the you have proper camber as the wheel goes thru it's arc.
In regards to using a sway bar, I think it is a must for asphalt racing but in the dirt I think it binds up the car alittle. Iv'e raced it both ways and prefer not to use the sway bar. I consider a sway bar to be a 5th spring. There are alot of variables here and alot of decisions to make! One more thing - If you sit in your car and turn your steering wheel to the right as if you were countersteering into a turn, you should notice that the right side of your car will raise up about an inch or so - This adds wedge into the car which adds bite to the RR which means you can stomp on that pedal hard and still be hooked up! Hope that helps! Good luck!

Speedway65
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 344
posted January 13, 2005 11:02 AM  

 
We run a metric car 3100lbs no sway bar lf-800 rf 900 lr225 rr-200 runs through the corners like its on rails! SS24a

[This message has been edited by Speedway65 (edited January 13, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Speedway65 (edited January 13, 2005).]

backwoodsracer
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted January 13, 2005 11:40 AM  
I got the car to roll through the corners real well an actually was slightly loose going in but that was achieved with stagger which as you said kills wedge.I have the lower a-frames set as you said and that seems to be the location they work best on my car but in the rear we are allowed no alterations and it is easy for the officials to tech.The way I have found to get wedge with the springs is to use a 175 lr ss spring I got from speedway and the 150 came from testing a lot of stock rears you can always seem to find heights plus or minus 1-2 inches and the rates vary also.We have to run stock appering rear pigtails so this is what I have found to get wedge in the ballpark.My car also raises the right side about an inch when steering to the right even with the sway bar hooked up.Have you ever expirimented with afco or pro split valve ss shocks with your setup?

dirtrace54
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 192
posted January 13, 2005 09:54 PM  
A feel a sway bar has only one place on a hobby stock. And that is if they have to have completely stock spring. If the rates can be changed the the sway bar isnt needed. If they were that important, mods and latemodels would run them. I have two track championships....funny thing is one with a sway bar(stock springs) and a second without (when the rules changed). Hope this helps

Kent
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted January 13, 2005 10:33 PM  
Backwoodsracer - If you are a little loose going into the corners you can change the offset on your LR to tighten up your car. I run a 4" offset on the LR and when the track gets dryslick I put a 3" offset wheel on and it really tightens the car up. Hope it helps! Isn't it fun trying to figure all of this stuff out? I really enjoy reading what everyone else is doing too! That is why this is such a great website!

kevinwardracing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 35
posted January 15, 2005 05:20 AM  
I might test the subject and play with it on non-points nights, etc...but as you said, "I have been running one the past few seasons with great success..." And that is hard to mess with. A very good friend and team I highly respect use one to great advantage. Success on the track is your best indicator you're doing something right...and that, like I said, is hard to mess with.


backwoodsracer
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted January 15, 2005 07:50 AM  
We ge a couple warmup weekends before the season weather permiting and I am probably going to try the car without the bar the first weekend if nothing else comes up.The car was just awsome the last half of last season 6 wins and no finish worse than third missed champioship by 4 points.I just want to weigh all the options and not leave anything on the table this season.As everybody knows second place is just the first looser.

Kent
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 102
posted January 16, 2005 04:15 PM  
Kevin - You race at Lakeside don't you? You guys are very sucessful and have a really good driver! It's all of the little things that add up! Good luck to everyone this year!

    

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