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Author Topic:   camaro spindles on a metric
GARYAL
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 94
posted January 03, 2005 04:17 AM  
i was told that the camaro spindles i have (1978) are the same geometry as the impala spindles is this true. i would like to use them on a metric car. has anyone tried this what are any drawbacks.

340duster
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 195
posted January 03, 2005 11:55 AM  
The camaro spindles are shorter than the impala spindles.

backwoodsracer
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 88
posted January 03, 2005 04:44 PM  
I'm not sure but I think you will also have to swap out your calipers and rotors whitch are heavier pieces.I have all the stock metric parts with some work you can get them to work rather well.I managed 6 wins and missed championship by 4 points.It's all in the setup you just have to go looking for it sometimes.

o5racer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted January 03, 2005 06:18 PM  
No the camaro spindles are not shorter than the impalla spindles. They are the same size. The metric spindles are shorter than the camaro and impalla spindles. Do a search, you will find more info than you need.

CA Dirt guy
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted January 03, 2005 07:03 PM  
I thought the Impala spindles were taller too, and thought thats why you wanted them. What I found out when I researched it and found a set, you get 12" rotors and a 5x5 lug pattern and overall heavier duty.

mudd on the tires
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 42
posted January 03, 2005 07:39 PM  
i've got a camaro, and i have a mid 80's caprice spindle on the passenger side. it has a bigger outside bearing, but it had a 4 3/4 bolt pattern. i have a late 70's impala spindle on the drivers side and it has the small outer bearing. the lower a arm on the pass. side is off the same mid 80's caprice. the 70 and most 80's GM lower a arms and spindles are supose to match, except for the outer bearing which i think they changed in early 80's.

[This message has been edited by mudd on the tires (edited January 03, 2005).]

CA Dirt guy
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 11
posted January 03, 2005 10:00 PM  
I think some had 11" rotors too. I found the ones I have with the rotors still on so I could measure the lug pattern and and rotor size. The wrecking yard gave me the whole list of Hollander interchange with all the car they were available on. I think the newer ones(later models) aren't has good. I don't think they are as heavy duty but will still interchange.

o5racer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted January 03, 2005 11:10 PM  
The cars with the 12 inch rotor and the 5 on 5 bolt pattern are alot heavier than the camaro or impalla spindles. Not worth the extra weight on the front of a metric. Plus I think they use a different lower ball joint.
Nick

bbracer17
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 278
posted January 04, 2005 06:37 PM  
I have tried this. I can only tell you what my experience is and somebody else may say I'm wrong. If you run a bomber car where you can't lower it a taller spindle might work. The camaro and metric impala spindle are 8 3/4 inches tall the 78-88 monte spindle is 7 1/2 inches tall. If you have a car that you are going to lower the upper control arm angle increases so much with the impala or camaro spindle that you get a to much camber gain during compression. If you have a car that you can't lower then the impala spindle may work for you on the right front and the camaro spindle on the left front. The camaro spindle has a pin inclination of 10 degrees and the impala 7 degrees. If you put the camaro spindle on the right front you will have to drastically shorten the upper A-arm. I hope I have explained this good enough, you might actually have to bolt these on your car to understand what I'm talking about. I ended up going back to the stock 78-88 spindles and the front geometry is better even though it is still terrible since I'm not allowed to move my upper mounts. If you're allowed to move you're upper mounts then you can make just about any spindle work for you.

GARYAL
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 94
posted January 05, 2005 06:47 AM  
PIN INCLINATION what is that. from what it sounded like are you saying that it will take camber out of the right front. does the top lean out on these I havent dug the camaros out and checked them over for this sort of thing never actually thought about that part. i have to run oem control arms.

if this does affect the camber is there another control arm i can use that will fix it. either upper or lower. it most be a stock not a racing component.

[This message has been edited by GARYAL (edited January 05, 2005).]

superdave
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 280
posted January 06, 2005 06:48 PM  
The most misunderstood part of front end alignment is kingpin inclination. Although today's modern independent front suspension systems no longer employ the kingpin as part of the suspension, the angle, or term, still applies. The kingpin inclination angle is an imaginary line drawn from the center of the top ball joint to the center of the lower ball joint, looking at the suspension from the front of the car, The difference between the kingpin inclination and the caster angle is that the caster is a line from ball joint to ball joint seen from the side view whereas the kingpin angle is seen from the front view.

The purpose of the kingpin inclination is to get the pivot point of the wheel in the centerline of the tire. If the kingpin inclination was zero degrees(that line projected between the ball joints pointing straight down), the pivot point of the tire would be on its very inside edge and all the rest of the tire contact patch would have to scrub around it when the tire changed steering direction.
The amount of kingpin inclination is built into the spindle and there is no way to change it. But there are two important reasons why you should be aware of what kingpin inclination your car has, and what its effects are.

The first effect of kingpin inclination is in the camber curve. The more kingpin angle there is, the more initial negative camber there is built into the suspension, so the smoother the camber and wheel movement curves are when it corners.

The other effect is on wheel offset. Most commercially manufactured racing spindles are designed so that the kingpin inclination gives a wheel pivot point very close to the centerline of the tire. But when wheel offsets are changed, the inclination angle is going to be pointing at one edge or the other of the tire, causing the wheel to steer about that edge.


Good luck,
Superdave

[This message has been edited by superdave (edited January 06, 2005).]

bbracer17
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 278
posted January 06, 2005 08:45 PM  
Garyal if you bolt a camaro spindle on a metric car You will probably have alot of positive camber ( top of the tire out farther than the bottom). Superdave is completely correct, he just knows how to say it better. Longer lower control arms would probably make them work fine.

gahainsey
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 113
posted January 07, 2005 04:57 AM  
Be sure to fix the bump steer when you install camaro/77-8? impala/73-77 monte/73-77 cutlass/73-77 grandprix spindles on a metric. It will bump out a ton!

bbracer17
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 278
posted January 07, 2005 07:12 PM  
You are right. That is one of the reasons I went back to the stock spindles.

fastow
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 168
posted January 07, 2005 10:25 PM  
Superdave that was a good explanation of king pin inclination. Only thing I have to disagree on is not being able to change pin inclination of a spindle if one puts the right front hard against the concrete wall it could be adjusted LOL

superdave
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 280
posted January 07, 2005 11:36 PM  
I cheated. I copied it from somewhere else. And the best cars seem to be the ones with the concrete tweak.

Good luck,
Superdave

    

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