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Author Topic:   Tubular Rear Lower Trailing Arms
WesternAuto17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 569
posted September 28, 2004 11:10 AM  
Does anyone have any experience with using tubular lowers for metric dirt cars? Seems like they would be good. Just curious.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted September 28, 2004 06:10 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by racer17j:
i have seen alot of the old wisota mods run swedge tubes back when they had to run stock 4 links

what are swedge tubes?

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted September 30, 2004 12:01 AM  
they are steel tubes with heim joints on each end. They are called sweged because the middle of the bar is the biggest diameter and they taper down to the heim joint, you can get them at almost any racing store. Check out speedwaymotors.com they sell them.

WesternAuto17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 569
posted September 30, 2004 07:03 AM  
OK, so if you make lowers out of swedge tubs and use a stock (or adjustable) uppers, what prevents the rear end from moving side to side? Do you have to add a panard bar?

UFnARacing
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 179
posted September 30, 2004 08:37 AM  
I must admit that I'm somewhat confused with the question. If you just switched the stock lowers with swedge tubes and kept the same location, the only difference would be losing the give that's in the stock arm bushings. But then again, I guess you could adjust the length on them. You would have to use a panhard if you change the configuration of the arms. You can check out the pictures on my website, I use 3 stock lowers as a 3 link, but then you need a panhard, which is kind of hard to see.

------------------
http://www.ufnaracing.com

WesternAuto17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 569
posted September 30, 2004 11:36 AM  
It was a bad question. I wasn't thinkin right.

istock59
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 501
posted September 30, 2004 11:49 AM  
So what diameter swedge tubes would you use? I see in JRs catalog that there's 1/2", 5/8" and 3/4" steel swedge tubes.

Only the 1/2" and 5/8" can you get heims that could be used with 1/2" bolts tho.


iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted September 30, 2004 12:28 PM  
i boxed in my lowers in my metric car and haven't had a problem and they are lots stronger than stock
i got the idea from my brother-in-law's drag car

just a question though if you switched to swedge tubes how would you center the hiem joints with washers on both sides?
i don't get it???

drive hard or drive home

istock59
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 501
posted September 30, 2004 12:48 PM  
There's built-in bind in the bushings (rubber or urethane) in any OEM arm, I think that's what we're trying to eliminate with the heim ends.

Yeah, you'd have to come up with spacers between the mount and the heim. 3/4" steering shaft tubing would work perfect, cut to the right length, of course.

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted September 30, 2004 04:47 PM  
Yeah I would recommend if using sweged tubes to use 3/4" heim joint types. Also there is a very intresting article in this months Stock Car Magazine about the metric rear contol arms. I haven't had time to completely read it but I kinda glanced over it and noticed it said not to box in the factory control arms, something about they were made to flex??? You might want to check that out. That may be for asphalt racing, I don't know.

iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted September 30, 2004 08:49 PM  
??? i notice lots of guys ripping them out of their cars racing and knock on wood i haven't yet

but it helped with wheel hop by boxing them in

drive hard or drive home

jay116
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 428
posted September 30, 2004 10:01 PM  
I totally agree jay, I think if it has flex in it then thats just binding things up. I'll read that artical thouroughly later and post what it says.

allzway
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 136
posted October 01, 2004 07:38 AM  
I didn't think it was legal to use aftermarket or built control arms in IMCA?

I had actually been told that even boxing them in was illegal.

istock59
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 501
posted October 01, 2004 07:59 AM  
Well, who said anything about IMCA???

You're right IMCA wouldn't allow them. Nor do they allow you to box the OEM ones. There's enough Outlaw tracks around here tho, you could run them there.


allzway
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 136
posted October 01, 2004 09:17 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by istock59:
Well, who said anything about IMCA???

The Istock59 name and FlyinlowIMCA sort of threw me off.


Istock66
unregistered Total posts: 136
posted October 01, 2004 08:05 PM           send a private message to allzway   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
most pavement late models use 3\4 tubeing and heims for rear trailing arms.

you can get reducer bushings if you want to use your 1\2 inch bolts etc.

I used 3\4 tap id alum hex tubing from Coleman for about 6 bucks a foot, it was easy to tap and plenty strong.

I would never ever use swedge tubes on a race car anywhere, they are very thin at the ends, and often break of in the threads etc. I have been around cars running swedge tubes, round tube, hexagon alum tubes etc a lot and swedge tubes are dangerous period. anytime you shrink tubeing down isnt good!!

BIGDADDYBOZ
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 466
posted October 02, 2004 12:27 AM  
I have a friend that use to race asphault and he would know the best senierio for this,but look at a control arm and how thick they are and look at a Swedge tube what would you put your life on? Stock for me you can always get the bearings that go in to the stockones and they work very well!

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted October 02, 2004 08:01 PM  
I have been running sweged tubes for about 3 years now on everything on my open wheel mod everything from front upper control arms to all the bars in the rear of my 4 bar and I have never had a problem. But I have run the aluminum tubes and bend the he11 out of em' LOL!!!

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted October 02, 2004 10:30 PM  
Swedge tubes are made to be suspension parts. I don't think you are risking your life using a part for the exact purpose for which it was built, are you?

Istock66
unregistered Total posts: 569
posted October 05, 2004 03:53 PM           send a private message to WesternAuto17   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
Everyone has their opinions, I dont see why everyone with a different one wants to argue theirs all the time on here. I have noticed lately that the more knowleadgable people are posting less and less!!!!!

Cigarettes are made to be smoked, so they must be ok!!!! and the list goes on and on and on and on.

FlyNLoIMCA17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 753
posted October 05, 2004 05:15 PM  
Hey!!! there is nothing wrong with cigarettes, they are good for you!! Why must you argue with me!! LOL!!!!!!! I agree it seems that way lately. Ok announcement!!!! EVERYONE TAKE A CHILL PILL!!! LOL!!! maybe that'll help.

WesternAuto17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 569
posted October 06, 2004 07:21 AM  
Just asking, that's all.

Subject dropped.

Mikey14
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 265
posted October 06, 2004 09:53 AM  
staying on topic,

Has anyone welded in supports to the stock arms to cut down on the flex? That and solid bushings would probably keep bind down.

OR am I way off?

iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted October 06, 2004 01:08 PM  
yes if you read up the post you will find mine that said i boxed in the lowers on my metric
and i am using energy suspension bushings

drive hard or drive home

quote:
Originally posted by Mikey14:
staying on topic,

Has anyone welded in supports to the stock arms to cut down on the flex? That and solid bushings would probably keep bind down.

OR am I way off?



racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted October 06, 2004 04:44 PM  
The softer the bushing the more movement the rear end will have, i.e. roll steer. I completely read the article I posted about earlier and my opinion would be to strengthen the arms by boxing them in or whatever, if your rules allow and on the RR lower link either find a softer bushing or drill holes in the stock bushing to allow more flex for better roll steer.

dgb
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 70
posted October 07, 2004 08:45 AM  
at my track, a couple years ago everyone was using heims and swedge tubes in all their rear control arms. Now we're almost all back to running stock ones with rubber bushings- I think (as does most of my competition apparently) that they are faster. The give in that rubber helps sidebite in my experience. Took me a couple years to convince myself of that, but I'm convinced now. I sure liked the adjustability of the heims though. You can lead or trail one side, or change pinion angle so easily with them.

jay116
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 428
posted October 08, 2004 04:33 AM  
In the past I've used poly bushings everywhere except on the housing mounts. On those, I use the stock rubber. I think I'll try tubes and heims.

Thanks for all the input.

istock59
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 501
posted October 08, 2004 07:40 AM  

 
WA17, take a look at the "what's new" area on www.dcaracing.com. The tubular lowers are $49 each. Not sure you can make them for that.

[This message has been edited by istock59 (edited October 08, 2004).]

WesternAuto17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 569
posted October 08, 2004 12:50 PM  
10-4

Thanks

maniac motors
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 128
posted October 08, 2004 06:18 PM  
if you box the whole arme you will create a suspensin bind that will eventually send you to the mad house.i would personally just use flat stock and just wrap the ends to retain /strengthen this area around bushing. by doing this the arm is able to twist and allows more rear suspension articulation ie. better rear bite by allowing left rear to drop more and help put power to the track and not spin as easily. and to all who believe in putting new bushings in dont.old used rubber flexes much better and yes it does add rear steer under power and yes you can drill the bushings around the sleeve but make sure the car is right in all other areas as this is kind of a last effort to tighten it up but also makes rear of car feel quirkey. some may like it i didnt.

bryanb30
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 243
posted October 10, 2004 07:21 PM  
isnt there a lot of bind in the stock 4 link set up? looks like to me when you throw it in the corner that there is nothing to stop the control arms from moving towards the drivers side of the car creating a bind in the up and down movement of the arms...and it looks like the only thing you could do to fix it would be a panhard bar, because if you put heim joints on all the control arms its still gonna want to flex to one side in the corners aint it?

[This message has been edited by bryanb30 (edited October 10, 2004).]

    

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