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Author Topic:   Winning setup..........or not! Any advice?
Blind Barney
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted September 14, 2004 09:03 PM  
I have an 81 Pontiac Grand Prix Hobby Stock and am doing very well, we have won two, some heats, cut tires while leading and have numerous 2nd's. We finally scaled the car this past weekend just for fun. Here's what we have:

LF 981 lbs/30.8%
RF 832 lbs/26.1%
LR 631 lbs/19.8%
RR 740 lbs/23.2%
Total Weight 3,184
Front 1,813 56.9%
Rear 1,371 43.1%
Left 1,612 50.6%
Right 1,572 49.4%
RF - LR 45.9%
LF - RR 54.1%

I am brand new to dirt. We have a 1000 spring on the RF with a rubber in it, a 900 spring on the LF, a 175 on the LR and a 200 with a rubber in it on the RR. Our fuel cell is all the way to the right. Our battery is on the right under the rear side window mounted to the cage. I am pretty sure we are way way off of an ideal setup. We are not allowed to add weight.

Any tips on to better this car? Where to hide weight?

I am thinking of a 1200 on the RF and a 1000 on the LF and a 200 on the RR and a 250 on the LR. This should help bring up my cross but will it help with rear weight? I am also thinking of a plastic nose to take weight off the front. I only have an 11 gallon fuel cell and refuse to go bigger. Thanks for your help

ctfarm
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 206
posted September 15, 2004 10:06 AM  
Your rear weights are reversed.Swap the rear springs,move the battery and the fuelcell to the left.Weight favors the stiffer springs,you may try an 1100 on the rtfront.I'm guessing the car is loose,this should tighten it up.Stiffening the springs at all four corners will not help rear weight.since you can't add to the rear,remove from the front.

Blind Barney
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted September 15, 2004 10:32 AM  
Thansk ct, I was hoping someone would comment. We run the stock nose on this car and am going to switch to a plastic aftermarket nose and that should get some weight off the front. Any other tips on removing weight from the front. I always thought for dirt that you wanted more weight on the RR than the LR for bite? I race on a quarter mile banked dirt track.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted September 15, 2004 04:13 PM  
both of these guys have given you good ideas for a more conventional set-up however you have said that you are already running up front where are you getting beat by the other cars if its just "racing luck" then why change...sometimes unconventional can be fast too. sorry guys no offense

Blind Barney
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted September 15, 2004 05:21 PM  
I'm killin them on exit and I run lane 2 really well. I forget to use the brakes. I had the same thoughts, if I'm winning why change a thing. I know these guys are gonna catch me eventually and I am looking for ideas what to do when that happens. The rear weight thing is my biggest goal right now. I still have the stock steering column in there and that could save some pounds to take that out along with a plastic nose and an aluminum rad. I don't like a bigger fuel cell because of the weight being so high, I know more than 50% of the cars run a larger fuel cell and that would be the quick fix but as you guys now, the less weight you carry around the less the motor has to pull. I am pulling 3500 rpm out of the corner and 4300 at the end of the straight and a gear change to 410's will be a big power gain. I am going to move the battery from the right to the left. I'm getting some great help from all of you guys, keep it coming. Thanks.

rico 08
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1139
posted September 15, 2004 06:51 PM  
Here's what i've got for comparison:
corner weights
LF 829 RF 809
lr 700 Rr 608
springs
lf 1000 rf 1400
lr 250 rr 200
some things to change for rear weight are most importantly the bumper,older malibu's have a heavy bumper,probably the heaviest of all metrics,also don't worry about adding weight,if your car will spin the tires then it will benifit from more rear weight.Also don't try a spring as heavy as my right front,it won't work on regular setups.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted September 15, 2004 07:33 PM  
Build a new fuel cell can out of 1/4 inch plate steel, get rid of the factory colum, and move the battery to the trunk.

Blind Barney
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted September 17, 2004 08:22 PM  
what is your theory on having the battery in the trunk? I am new to dirt and know that the chances of rolling are much greater. I have heard stories about the battery caps coming off and acid getting all over the drover, I have also heard of the battery coming lose and hitting the driver. Our tech guy says he has a fear of putting something that can generate sparks in the same compartment as gas. What is your experiences? Thanks for the fuel cell tip you have triggered a thought of 1/2 steel on the bottom of the cell and maybe an eighth of an inch on the sides and top.

o5racer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 402
posted September 19, 2004 01:49 PM  
The reason for the battery in the trunk is weight placement. most of them weigh close to 50# and moving it from the back seat to the trunk will help your rearweight. Just make sure its mounted solid and there wont be any problem.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted September 19, 2004 05:46 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Blind Barney:
I have an 81 Pontiac Grand Prix Hobby Stock and am doing very well, we have won two, some heats, cut tires while leading and have numerous 2nd's. We finally scaled the car this past weekend just for fun. Here's what we have:

LF 981 lbs/30.8%
RF 832 lbs/26.1%
LR 631 lbs/19.8%
RR 740 lbs/23.2%
Total Weight 3,184
Front 1,813 56.9%
Rear 1,371 43.1%
Left 1,612 50.6%
Right 1,572 49.4%
RF - LR 45.9%
LF - RR 54.1%

I am brand new to dirt. We have a 1000 spring on the RF with a rubber in it, a 900 spring on the LF, a 175 on the LR and a 200 with a rubber in it on the RR. Our fuel cell is all the way to the right. Our battery is on the right under the rear side window mounted to the cage. I am pretty sure we are way way off of an ideal setup. We are not allowed to add weight.

Any tips on to better this car? Where to hide weight?

I am thinking of a 1200 on the RF and a 1000 on the LF and a 200 on the RR and a 250 on the LR. This should help bring up my cross but will it help with rear weight? I am also thinking of a plastic nose to take weight off the front. I only have an 11 gallon fuel cell and refuse to go bigger. Thanks for your help



We've been fighting setups all year. But finally, finally won our 1st feature last Saturday. We run a Nova 3200 lbs and our weight is a 51% rear 52% left. 1100 lbs spring in the RF, 950 LF, 200 LR and 175 RR
1" lowering blocks both rear springs. 4inch back spaced wheels on the RR and LF. 3" back space on the LR and RF. We had been fighting a loose condition all year until we lowered the tire pressures, (running bead locks) and changed the castor camber and softened the springs all around. We can't wait til next week !!! Good luck . I hope this helps.. John

Blind Barney
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted September 21, 2004 08:34 PM  
My notes are a setup without swaybar. Are most of you guys running no swaybar?

neil rucker
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 799
posted September 21, 2004 08:48 PM  
i like a swaybar. its personal prefference i think.

Blind Barney
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted September 21, 2004 08:52 PM  
our rules do not allow a sway bar.

stormy
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 49
posted September 22, 2004 04:06 PM  
I dont run a sway bar, i think if u get ur front springs right theres no need for one, just all the more weight on ur front end. i see alot of guys runnin em tho. it really is personal preference.

maniac motors
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 128
posted September 22, 2004 06:09 PM  
i won the track championship with a regal
lf spring 1000lb rf spring 1200
1r spring 250lb rr spring 200
2 3/8 stageer in front 1 3/4 in rear
i will tell every one her that the biggest gain in these metrics is free suspension movement and proper front end setup(caster and camber specs)also playing with rear ride heights has big effect on rear bite by changing ctrl arm angles and rear steer an roll steer are affected by the angles on rear ctrl arms.

Blind Barney
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 120
posted September 22, 2004 06:56 PM  
where did you have your fuel cell (left or right) and how big? Where did you have your battery mounted? Thanks.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted September 28, 2004 06:40 PM  
Mr. barney ok iam going to put this as simple as i can for you and please keep in mind iam not make fun or putting you down in anyway when i say this.
your idea on the fuel cell: yes running less fuel would be ok IF you could add weight you need to run as big as you can get and always keep it full like racer 17j said it will add you a lot of free easy weight and man let that thing run he!! even my passenger car runs harder then that you will have no problems running that thing 6000 or around there.
we cant run a sway bar either cause our rules dont allow it(darn the luck anyways) we run a 1200 lbs spring in the rf and a 1100 in the lf and 200 on the lr and 175 on the rr and o i dont know with almost 20 wins this year i think that it works pretty well lol. Our car is a 83 regal

[This message has been edited by iowa_dirt_track_girl (edited September 28, 2004).]

    

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