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Author Topic:   Trying to help a friend
iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted May 17, 2004 11:29 PM  
Fellas i could use a little bit of input on this iam trying to help a friend out hes a good fella

OK problem is the car is really good in and threw the middle but rear but is loose on exit not really loose but he cant get back on the gas as soon as i would like to see him

Rf 1200
Lf 950
Rr 175
Lr 200
1/2 inch stagger in rear
3/4 stagger in front
2inch offsets in the front and right rear and a stright up on the left rear

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted May 18, 2004 05:03 AM  
litle more stagger in the rear will help

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loose is fast & on the edge of out of control

WesternAuto17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 569
posted May 18, 2004 08:40 AM  
Kinda sounds to me like a problem outside the set-up. My experience is that if the car is good in and rotating well thru the center, it will exit fine.

I would look into reducing the gear first and making sure the tires are as good/big as they can be and adjust driving style. Maybe carrying a little more speed thru the center or running a higher groove would help it not snap loose on exit.

Opening up the stagger should loosen it all around the corner, shouldn't it? What's your thinking on adding stagger? I stopped running over an inch of stagger last year and I'm much happier with less stagger.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted May 18, 2004 10:45 AM  
well adding stagger will help you threw the corner but loosen you off so if anything taking stagger away would help but this is the problem iam running into

He is not spinning the tires and if i take stagger away from the car it will tighten it up in the center and going in and that is where it is good
he is running a 620 ear on a big 3/8 track
turninng about 6700 to 6800 so he is right in the ball park

I just cant figure out how to tighten it up a little comming off and still not affect going in and through the center]


dirtbuster
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 2007
posted May 18, 2004 12:06 PM  
What about sticking the LR wheel out an inch or so with different offset wheel.

Or a stiffer LR spring or more LR bite.

My driver (modified) drove a hobby stock for a freind at the end of last year that acted the same as you are saying and we put a stiffer LR srping in and he said it helped it come off.

[This message has been edited by dirtbuster (edited May 18, 2004).]

BIGDADDYBOZ
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 466
posted May 18, 2004 02:45 PM  
I had this prob and I moved the LR out more helped tremendously.

c21
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 521
posted May 18, 2004 02:47 PM  
I'd reduce the front spring split and bump up the static cross a hair and see how it does.

are his rear tire pressures reasonable?

Changing the rear wheels (try 3"b.s. both sides) would be a step in the right direction as well.

c21

bigcityracer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 431
posted May 18, 2004 05:31 PM  
Try more stagger in the front. Have you checked your shocks? May need more rebound on the left front shock.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted May 18, 2004 10:50 PM  
we put a spacer in the left rear for tommorrow night

One more thing that bugs me is there is no left rear heat and the right rear goes from 35 lbs to 38 lbs in 6 laps (becuase of the heat) but why no left rear heat there must be no drive off the left rear
tire pressures are
lf 24
lr 25
rr 35
rf 35
205/70/15 i never run any less on the right side cuase of the tendance of running the tire off the bead
c21 if i tell him to put a 1100 lbs spring in the left front would be have to loose the car back up becuase off the added static cross

plus fellas we cant run any racing shocks they are bilstein street stock shocks

Thanks again for your help guys

[This message has been edited by iowa_dirt_track_girl (edited May 18, 2004).]

c21
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 521
posted May 19, 2004 10:23 AM  
the problem with bumping up the left front is that it will make the car tighter in the middle (on tracks with less than 16 degrees banking).

I would evauluate your travel on the RF .... if you are not close to bottoming out, I would soften the RF (try a 1050) and then add some cross. adding the cross will compinsate for the RF spring's influence on dynamic cross in the middle and entry. Properly done, you should be able to keep the entrance and middle the same while tightening up the exit.

I would also encourage you to re-consider the offset choices on the rear wheels ..... moving the drive force to the right (as this car is) will ALWAYS loosen up the exit.

c21

bobaluuu
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 474
posted May 19, 2004 09:15 PM  
I agree w/c-21 but I believe you can tighten it up without a spring change(even though I agree with the recommendation) put the 2 inch on the lr and a three on the rr. Drop that air pressure 3 lbs all the way around and try a test run. I dont understand your gearing and rpms though. I run a 705 final drive and a med banked 3/8th track with only
62 to 6600 rpms, I think a 620 would fall on its face and bogg off the corners. Mayby we're talkin about two different things though. You did say that was gear??
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Light it up, Baby!

[This message has been edited by bobaluuu (edited May 19, 2004).]

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted May 20, 2004 03:05 AM  
here is what i did tonight to his car i put a 225 spring on the left rear and we now have even heat on both back tires even though it was a little tight on entry but that was due to a heavy track if it was slick it should have worked pretty good i think

With moving the left rear out wouldnt that make the left rear spring act softer i know it will tighten the car up but would that aqlso help on entry

And yes the 620 gear on a big 3/8 turned 6700 tonight without spinning the tires ona tacky track


he race 4th tonight but he ran second for a long time and was pulling one of the fastest cars off the corner he ran sec cause of lack of experiance due to lap cars

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted May 21, 2004 10:52 AM  
Put you a spring rubber in the left rear and raise it about 1/2 inch. When you say loose without spinning do you mean momentum sliding? If momentum sliding then you should free the thing up in the middle a little. Do this by raising ride height on lf and lr about 1/2 or so.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted May 21, 2004 12:42 PM  
i have never seen that big of split in the front for spring with that 1200 in rf and 950 in lf

iam kind of wondering about that big of split in the rear with the 175 on rr and 225 on lr

Plus his fuel cell and battery are all slide to the drivers side of the car so would moving the battery to the right side and leaving the fuel cell alone with a 220 lbs spring in the lr be the same???

UNVRNO
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 136
posted May 21, 2004 07:21 PM  
Aside from whats allready mentioned above.

whats in the car for a throttle?

if its too fast, it will be hard to get on the gas easy enough.

move the pedal end down if there are multiple holes.


iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted May 22, 2004 11:10 AM  
ill have him try that that is one thing i never thought of

Still wondering if anybody runs that kind of split in the front or rear?????

waltonjr1
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 516
posted May 22, 2004 11:48 AM  
Thats the same springs I run in the front. Car handles great. On the rear i run 200# rr and 225 lr

[This message has been edited by waltonjr1 (edited May 22, 2004).]

CLBaker25
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 193
posted May 25, 2004 06:10 AM  
I would reduce the gear to a 5.83 depending on what kind of motor this guy is running it is sounds like it is going to be very hard controlling that much gear coming off the corner. With less gear I would think the car would run between 6300-6500 which I think would be a better range and allow the car to get more top speed. Thru the end of the straights.

CLBaker25
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 193
posted May 25, 2004 06:12 AM  
We run more front spring split than that but it is in a stock car.

bigcityracer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 431
posted May 25, 2004 04:08 PM  
Run more stagar in the front. Drop pressures down on left side.

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted May 25, 2004 10:24 PM  
Well after helping him he has lowered his rpm from 7100 to 6700 so i dont want him to change gears (good thought though)

We did up the stagger from 1/2 to 3/4 inch and put a straight up offset wheel on the rr and put the 200 lbs spring back in the left rear for this week and left the stagger alone ( 3/8 inch rear)

What would you say to run for tire pressure on the left side ????

bigcityracer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 431
posted May 25, 2004 10:44 PM  
Air pressure???
LF 20psi
LR 24psi
RR 32psi


maniac motors
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 128
posted June 03, 2004 05:42 PM  
i run hobby class with a 78 regal dirt car have to run 70 series or narrower tires and run this combo:
1000lf 12psi
1200rf 16psi
225lr 12psi
200rr 16psi
i run 2-1/2 inch frt stagger
1-3/4 rear stagger
if car is loose off ill move left rear out and take some air out of lf and rr just have to be carefull how soft you run rr if track is heavy or rutted bad.
secret to get it to work is all in control arm angles frt and rear
also if nobody has posted it yet most loose off conditions are drivers right foot related
hope this helps if any

shifty8
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 123
posted June 03, 2004 08:26 PM  
im not seeing the piont to put front stager i have always been told to keep the front as close to even as possible and run 5 to 6 1/2 on the rear but that is for my track i guess im on a 1/3 mile

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go fast turn left,
GAS ON

shifty8
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 123
posted June 03, 2004 08:29 PM  
but i would said the tire pressure is to high and maniac is close. i run 10 11 and 12 on mine but i have the racing tire

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted June 04, 2004 06:57 AM  
We can only run stock 5x7 aero wheels or what ever whell but thats what we run so i cant go any lower then 35 on the right side
But on the left side i have gone down as low as 23 to 24 lbs

LOL well we did find out what half the problem was anyways one of the guys got his numbers mixed up and had the wrong springs in the car he had the 175 on the lr and 200 on the rr so we swithed them and put a stright up wheel on the RR and took a little stagger out and that helped him out a ton copmming off
Thank you to everyone that answered in here hope i can help you guys out in the future

maniac motors
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 128
posted June 05, 2004 04:26 PM  
we are also required to run 15x7 wheels and are allowed no more than 3.5 inches backspacing.it does make it tough to get car handling good.like i said if track is real heavy or rutted bad we up air pressure(keeps tire from spinning on wheel and cutting valve stem or just plain rolling off the bead when hitting ruts.)one thing to remember in any case is that you should only use what "everyone else runs" as a starting point and fine tune to your driving style from there

    

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