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Author Topic:   set up fee
Whitelightning
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 429
posted October 14, 2003 08:29 AM  
hey all , I have finally finished mynew car and the chasis builder wants me to bring the car back so he can set it up. My question is:
85 Monte Carlo bars to front and rear, I know it depends on how much was hulled out but what does these cars usually wieght before added wieght. He charges 100 dollars to weight out car, set tow,camber,caster,etc.
My question is with the car having non adjustable cups in the front is it worth me having the car scaled, I have to weight 3500 so I guess he could scale it and add wieght to get good percentages but if the car already weights that( I have no clue about weight} then what. I guess what I am asking is it worth the 100 dollars to let someone set up car that has the knowledge and correct tools to do it?

Donnie Ross
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 264
posted October 14, 2003 09:32 AM  
yes especially first time to get a good baseline to use.

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted October 14, 2003 09:38 AM  
Pay the money, get it done, ask for a copy or the copy of the set-up sheet. Try to be there if possible, learn everything you can, ask questions.

ssaamm
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 31
posted October 14, 2003 10:16 AM  
I agree with tilley88. You'd be suprised where and how to balance out weight, it only takes a small thing to change a good percentage to a bad one.

Whitelightning
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 429
posted October 14, 2003 11:58 AM  
He said for me to me there, I guess cause our weight is with driver and to have it full of fuel. He said he was out of lead cause he done three cars last week, what do yall do for lead, I tought I would try and get used tire weights and melt with torchs in a valve cover if I can get any,

Mikey14
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 265
posted October 14, 2003 12:15 PM  
Ok, I agree that the set up is something you should do but I cant believe he'd charge for that. At a $100 a pop his scales are getting paid off pretty quick. It is worth it if you can't find someone to help you out otherwise. I'd never charge someone to use our scales and camber/caster gauge. Plus if he's setting things up and adjusting toe in and such its hard for you to gain any experience. Eventually you'll knock a toe out or bend something and throw off camber/caster. Will it cost another $100 to reset it? I know this is a contradiction, but it is worth it however I would see if another racer or friendly person couldn't help.

URDUSTED
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted October 14, 2003 04:29 PM  
Biggest question is this guy reputable? Have you seen his other cars at work, does he give you direction in which way to go if something doesn't work. You will probably need anywhere from 200-500 lbs of lead depending on how much you have out of the car. Base set up is important, but knowing where to go from there is just as important. Use the tire weights from a tire shop,(they are usually happy to give them away, then get a nice cast iron kettle and a huge propane burner and melt away. Try to pick out all the steel clips if possible. Then pour it into moulds and what nots. Valve covers do work well, but don't always fit where you need them to.

Whitelightning
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 429
posted October 14, 2003 04:37 PM  
Yes he is very good, he has built several, several cars and his cars has dominated the past several years. Thats why I went to him to build my new car because of his rep. I am not questioning his skill, but I was not clear on what he could do being the springs are non adjustable, he wanted me to get the adjuster cups but I dont want to take the front end back apart?

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted October 14, 2003 07:27 PM  
Unless you can afford your own scales, pay someone else to scale it for you. Stay away from the spring spacers, they will cause interference with your shocks, unless you take great care(and I mean GREAT) with alignment and jacking up and down on the front of your chassis. $100 is kinda high, but some builders figure that into the whole ball of wax. If he really knows what he's doin, you should be done in less than an hour, especially if he built the chassis. He should have a clue where he needs to move or place the weight.

rocket36
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 209
posted October 15, 2003 04:05 AM  
I would pay the money.
When you consider that your not just using his scales (he is the one who spent the $1500 odd dollars) but also his time, his shop, his tools and his knowledge, I wouldn't have thought it's a bad deal.
If your wise, spend a bit extra time (you've already paid the money) and change to a different tire or add remove some air pressure, add or remove some fuel, move some ballast around and see what difference it makes on the scales, that will help you make informed decisions in the future when your trying to change the setup to suit a race track.
I charge $100 to use my scales (they cost like $3000 to buy) here in Australia.

66jj
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 823
posted October 15, 2003 09:37 AM  
Thats cheap, but your still going to need a toe bar, and a caster camber guage of your own.

66jj
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 823
posted October 15, 2003 09:38 AM  
most chassis builders do the first set up free, they should all want their cars to work.

bigcitycowboy
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 89
posted October 15, 2003 07:27 PM  
my thoughts exactly 66... usually the builder will set up the car the first time, with the cost of building it..almost like buying a new car without test driving it.

Eljojo
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 968
posted October 15, 2003 08:55 PM  
Pay the money. It will come back to you at the pay window at your track. BUT---as was suggested earlier----be prepared for a scaling session. Take plenty of lead. Take enough fuel to top the cell off. Have the car as "race ready" as it will be as you head out for the feature.
I bought a set of scales two years ago. OCCASIONALLY I will forget what a PITA it is to set up a car for a friend. Generally they show up (on race day) with a few beer drinkin buddies, don't have ANY ballast. No fuel. No money. a set of tires with one "borrowed" from somebody. Never with a tire guage. Shims for the front end? Ya gotta be kidding me. I know why your builder charges $100!

SLEEPY GOMEZ
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 295
posted October 15, 2003 09:08 PM  
About the lead. If you are going to melt it be sure to have plenty of air circulating away from you toward the lead. Lead vapor is dangerous. Even then it is a lot of work. Okay, I used to do that too.

I know it is a little pricey but if you can afford it get the clamp on lead weights from A&A mfg. They are 12.5 and 25 pounds. With stainless bolts that never rust these weights clamp to any tube and can easily be moved or removed. They have been on my last two cars. SLEEPY

Whitelightning
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 429
posted October 16, 2003 09:23 AM  
hey We started melting lead last night and it is not fun. I read on the forum somewhere that you can use woood molds but to wet the wood first. WRONG, Hot lead plus damp wood= lots of splatter and big poppings, If I did not have saftey glasses on I really beleive it would have got my eyes. The wood will work but please do not wet it unless you wanna get injuried. Be careful. I know lead vapors are dangerous but I had a fan blowing but you still are exposed to it, is the there a big risk from doing it that once because to be honest I wont mess with it again, I will buy lead in the future? Just to dangerous!

[This message has been edited by Whitelightning (edited October 16, 2003).]

Eljojo
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 968
posted October 16, 2003 07:56 PM  
I said it and I did it. Do a search and reread that post. I said you need to dampen the wooden boxes....you are absolutly right, Pour molten lead into water and you've got an explosion! But I enjoyed molding the ballast! But I like going to the junk yard too!

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted October 16, 2003 08:55 PM  
Use an older chevy small block valve cover. Fill it up right to the lip. It'll weigh 50-55 lbs. Drillin 'em is the easy part. Cutting them in sections is harder. Use a full face shield for protection, lead splatter burns skin really good.

66jj
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 823
posted October 16, 2003 10:30 PM  
tilley

hows the easy way to drill them, when ive done it my bit gets hot and sticks unless i keep pulling it up on the drill press.

cutting, i just use my chopsaw no problems..


tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted October 16, 2003 10:37 PM  
I use a drill press & a wheel stud bit, & lots of WD-40. I'll have to try the chop saw thing, thanks.

stockcar5
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 578
posted October 17, 2003 08:58 PM  
100$ seems alot to set up a car.

my chassis builder will do it for free all year long if you run a sticker on your car.

luke

OppendikeRacing29
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 135
posted October 18, 2003 01:01 PM  
i drill lead all the time with just a regular drill, set the lead on the ground put a 2x4 under it and step on the lead so it dont move, start drilling and have someone pour water where ur drilling, works great

Mikey14
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 265
posted October 24, 2003 01:54 PM  
Tilley,

One trick I do:

While the lead is still hot I put a rod or long bolt into it to make my holes. To often I've filled up drill bits with melted lead. With the rod I just hit it once with a hammer and my holes are done.

tilley88
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 879
posted October 24, 2003 04:36 PM  
That sounds alot easier!

RCRacing #08
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 121
posted November 01, 2003 07:16 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Whitelightning:
hey all , I have finally finished mynew car and the chasis builder wants me to bring the car back so he can set it up. My question is:
85 Monte Carlo bars to front and rear, I know it depends on how much was hulled out but what does these cars usually wieght before added wieght. He charges 100 dollars to weight out car, set tow,camber,caster,etc.
My question is with the car having non adjustable cups in the front is it worth me having the car scaled, I have to weight 3500 so I guess he could scale it and add wieght to get good percentages but if the car already weights that( I have no clue about weight} then what. I guess what I am asking is it worth the 100 dollars to let someone set up car that has the knowledge and correct tools to do it?

A hundred dollars ain't nothing.....let him set it up....then fine tune from there.

------------------
If you can't work em in close & git em in your face with their orange landing gear down, don't bother taking the safety off......

istock59
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 501
posted July 05, 2005 12:19 PM  
And why exactly are we bringing back to the top posts from 2003???? If there's nothing important to add, leave them alone!

wastedmoney
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 16
posted July 05, 2005 07:59 PM  
i charge a 100 new car 1st time then after set ups depend how long it takes they always ask ????????? at the track and i give them help there and its free.

D9Dave
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 43
posted July 05, 2005 09:28 PM  
can anybody email me the plans for the bathroom car scales. my computer will not let me get them off this site. D9Jonesracing@aol.com Thanks Dave

ARMallardSlayer
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 175
posted July 05, 2005 10:01 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by istock59:
And why exactly are we bringing back to the top posts from 2003???? If there's nothing important to add, leave them alone!

There sure is a lot of whining going on about old post. If you have been here a long time and have read and replied to every post, good for you. Some of us haven't been here that long and have lots of stuff to read. Just because you don't like someone replying to a "2003" post, doesn't make it a crime.

Maybe you should talk to the admin and tell them to delete all old posts after a certain time period.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted July 05, 2005 10:33 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by ARMallardSlayer:
There sure is a lot of whining going on about old post. If you have been here a long time and have read and replied to every post, good for you. Some of us haven't been here that long and have lots of stuff to read. Just because you don't like someone replying to a "2003" post, doesn't make it a crime.

Maybe you should talk to the admin and tell them to delete all old posts after a certain time period.



Well, let's see, adding the following to an old 2003 post "A hundred dollars ain't nothing.....let him set it up....then fine tune from there." Boy, that sure added a TON of information to that old post! Thanks, we all appreciate re-reading for that!



ARMallardSlayer
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 175
posted July 06, 2005 07:13 AM  
hmmm, seems than a couple people added some new info that might help someone out....so I guess me bringing this post back was a great thing for me to do....sorry you didn't like it.....I'll try to do better in the future.........NOT!

------------------
If you can't work em in close & git em in your face with their orange landing gear down, don't bother taking the safety off......

istock59
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 501
posted July 06, 2005 08:07 AM  
Great! We all look forward to you insight at resurrecting old posts that need more info added to them! Thanks for all the effort in reading every single old post and deciding for everybody else.

I especially like the 2003 post of somebody with an old mod chassis for sale, and you bring it back to the top asking for a pic? Wow, thanks.

Never mind your type comes around now-and-again, I'll just look for any "new" post by ARMallard, and keep on a surfin....

ARMallardSlayer
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 175
posted July 06, 2005 09:02 AM  
quote:
I especially like the 2003 post of somebody with an old mod chassis for sale, and you bring it back to the top asking for a pic? Wow, thanks.

Never mind your type comes around now-and-again, I'll just look for any "new" post by ARMallard, and keep on a surfin....


Is it your job to pick what people read and reply to? The old mod chassis caught my eye and I responded to it, looks like you might have been interested also or you wouldn't have bothered clicking on it. Really, if that bothers you that much, you must really have a problem. I did read alot of post yesterday, looking for some idea as to what was wrong with my son's S/S Car...and I did find an answer for that...good thing, they don't delete everything after you read it. And being that my son would like to get into a Mod in a few years, I was looking for something to buy and work on a little at a time. But excuse me for exercising my freedoms by doing what I want to do whan I choose to do it. I didn't realize that this was your little world and you don't play well with others. My "type" comes around now and again....I curious to know what "type" I am. Being that dirt racing is what my son wants to pursue, I'll be around here for a while, as this is the best dirt forum I have found so far.


------------------
If you can't work em in close & git em in your face with their orange landing gear down, don't bother taking the safety off......

[This message has been edited by ARMallardSlayer (edited July 06, 2005).]

tom waara
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 19
posted July 06, 2005 07:14 PM  
[ 100.00 is cheap He's doing an alignment also. if a mechanic charges 65.00 per Hour Do You think He could Align, scale and add and adjust ballast in a hour and one half? .... no ...... To the people who said he should do it for free, why would He? Do you work for free? Just because he spent a bunch of money on getting the car built doesn't mean you get somthing for free. ....If you buy gas for your truck all year at a gas station that doesn't mean when you pull up on your four wheeler you get it for free because your a good customer. you still have to pay for it even if it is only 5.00

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted July 06, 2005 07:32 PM  
make lead containers out of 2x2, 2x3, 2x4 etc. rectangular tubing, whatever lengths you want. cap one end, and melt lead into the other. i weld 1/2" pipe onto, or through the rect tube for attaching it to the chassis.
drill a 1/4" hole in the bottom of a tin can, set it on top of the tube, fill it with wheel weights, and start melting. the lead will run through the hole into the rect tubing, very easy. but still an outdoor job. and all the steel clips off the wheel weights will stay in the tin can, to be discarded of later.

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted July 07, 2005 03:26 AM  
100.00 is dirt around here to get a car set up. paying 100.00 and fininishing 6-8 spots in the feature= well worth it.

i hate messing with the front end and 90% of the time setting ride height and front end can take as much as 3-4 hours. expecially with non adjustable spacers.

pay the money pay attention ask questions then buy a caster camber gauge.

bigdozer
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 54
posted July 08, 2005 06:54 PM  
i would run the car afew weekends to get a feel of the car befor i would pay the money so you can tell him how the car feels and what you want 100-150 is the norm but is to much for bomber in the long run figure it out your self or rely on him for 100 a pop each time

    

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