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Author Topic:   New to Sprints
mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted January 06, 2003 10:59 AM  
I'm a 30 year old guy who has been racing modifieds for the past 7 years. After a great 2002 season, Sponsor finally stepped up to the plate, I just returned to Florida from Ohio with a used Stealth Sprint Car.

If anyone has any advice for a total novice, please share.

I'll share what I learn, along with my mess ups. I have a LOT to learn about Injection, Magnetos, torsion bars.


KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted January 06, 2003 11:26 AM  
Invest in the new Steve Smith book regarding sprint cars and chassis set-ups. It is written by Jimmy Sills. It starts out very basic for beginners and works up to tried and true configurations for all sorts of dirt and asphalt tracks. I understand that there is also a video tape that goes along with the book. However, it may be a separate purchase.

You might contact the builder and see if there are updates for your car or if they have dimensions and/or basic set-up information. Make sure your chassis is "square" and everything moves freely. Used cars (new too!) can have a bent or sprung chassis that must be checked for and corrected before racing. Use fresh torsion bars or springs. Same with new tires when doing your final test and tune sessions. Many times, poor handling can be traced to old bars, tires or shocks.

Good luck with your "new" car!
Regards,
Gerry

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KSGerry

[This message has been edited by KSGerry (edited January 06, 2003).]

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted January 07, 2003 07:27 AM  
Got and read the Smith book several times while still deciding on which used chassis to buy. Coming from the Mods, I also had their Modified book, and while a good baseline, I didn't (and don't) agree with everything they had to say (about mods).

Ended up with a 98 Stealth with all 2002 updates. Car has 20 races total, was raced three times in 2002. After a complete inspection last night, one birdcage has a notch where the heim end mounts and needs to be machined square. Other then that, we appear to be in great shape.

Engine program is next step. Our season opens first week of March, going to be close between buying parts and getting everything together.

And a Q I am kinda embarrassed to ask : When towing a winged car on an open trailer, do most people take angle out of the wing, or just leave it alone? I'll be hauling about 30 miles one way, mostly 70mph or slower. Perhaps block the chassis to avoid stressing the torsion bars an extra 60 miles each week?
Thanks again everyone.

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted January 07, 2003 08:20 AM  
"When towing a winged car on an open trailer, do most people take angle out of the wing, or just leave it alone? I'll be hauling about 30 miles one way, mostly 70mph or slower. Perhaps block the chassis to avoid stressing the torsion bars an extra 60 miles each week?"

The answer is yes for both questions. Mark the position of the wing on the slider, drop the angle to flatten it and move it as far forward as possible. Tighten hardware. This lessens the drag on your tow vehicle and the stress on the wing and wing components. Watch for cross-wind! The side panels may cause your trailer to slide sideways.

As for elevating and blocking your chassis, we have made a padded wooden block to slide between the lower chassis rails and the trailer floor. Roll the car onto the trailer. Secure the front end. Pick up the tail and slide the block into place. Secure the rear of the car. The front and rear tie-down straps should be snug but no so tight as to stress components.

The car (all race cars) should be placed with the chassis on blocks between races or through the off-season allowing the car's suspension to hang free. Be careful not to overextend the shock absorbers.

Perhaps an oversimplified explanation as you are an experienced racer.

Regards,
Gerry

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KSGerry

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted January 13, 2003 09:54 AM  
The car I bought as ran has very little RF shock travel. I understand that Winged Sprints don't use much RF travel .... but what about bumps and such ? As a novice I'm going to ask lots of Q's like these ... please forgive me in advance.
What kind of total shock travel do the corners of a Winged Sprint see? My track will be a paperclip 3/8's with some banking.

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted January 13, 2003 04:25 PM  
I'm thinking that the travel for our front shocks is only an inch or two. With a winged car, the sideboards load the LR so shock travel for the opposite corner (RF) is not critical. One reason you see the "outlaws" raising the RF wheel and the LR squat down.
Regards,
Gerry

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KSGerry

hogracer
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted January 14, 2003 11:34 AM  
The injection is much easier to tune than a carb will ever be. Pay lots of attention to timing the birdcages, and keeping the jacobs ladder out of a bind, also if it has a Buckley instead of a torque tube you must make sure that is not binding.Elbows up hammer down--Gass er UP. and remember"how do you make a small fortune in sprint car racing?"-- "start out with a large one!!"

[This message has been edited by hogracer (edited January 14, 2003).]

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted January 24, 2003 09:41 AM  
Okay, another beginner Q.
Why do the SprintCars use the "block" method of chassis setup? Is the the most accurate way to repeat with Torsion Bars? How important is scaling - how much can the cornerweights vary if you use the blocks carefully?
Thanks again !

hogracer
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted January 24, 2003 10:53 AM  
We only used the blocks as a begining point for setting the ride height, then we added turns on the stops according to our notes and the type of track we were racing

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted February 09, 2003 12:19 PM  
How about the angle of Torsion Arms ? The Steve Smith book talks about them but doesnt explain WHY the angles are important.

Also, all other factors being the same, what happens if you widen the front track of a SprintCar? Reason I am asking - my car is "designed" for a 50" axle, but the one that came with it has been offset 2.5" to the left. Everything I read says you want the axle centered ... if I am going to buy another axle should I go wider ?

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted February 09, 2003 01:30 PM  
One important note regarding torsion arms is their relationship to the chassis. They naturally travel in an arc as the chassis loads and unloads. When loading or winding the bar, they should never go past center. Remember too as the chassis loads on one corner that the other bars may be unwinding.

Another note is the length of the arm in relationship to the spring rate of the bar. The greater the distance from the torsion bar to the link on the arm, the more leverage and a longer stroke. You will also notice the placement of the torsion bar tubes are placed one in front of the other and the length of the arms are different.

As for the axle and the offset, you might give Stealth a call and see what they suggest. You can always change the offset with wheels and spacers. Try what you have before making any changes unless this axle doesn't belong on this car or may be for a different track size/configuration. Look at the tracks this car raced at previously and how they compare to where you are going to race.

Every car handles differently and every driver's style is unique. Give things a try first before changing parts.

Best regards,
Gerry

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KSGerry

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted March 04, 2003 10:57 AM  

 
Well, we finally got the car done & on the track. Problem was the track was rougher then the surface of Mars ....

My friend (also new to Sprints) has his car there as well. My problem was my car was WAY too tight for my style. We are running a 'paperclip' shaped 3/8s's and I just could not get the car to rotate into the corner. When I tossed it hard enough, the R/R would catch a hole and drag the nose over, the few times I tried to gas it back loose I picked up the front end and kept pushing.
My friend was telling me he was driving with both feet, using the brake to hold the nose down, his car also has the third brake setup which I do not have. He was about a second off a race time at our track, I was a couple tenths slower.
My first reaction was to freak out

but my thoughts are that with the track rougher then we would ever race on, I should wait and get a second try before I worried. I did all the tricks at the track (spaced R/R out, wing forward, plenty of stagger) to get the car to pivot for me, just too much R/R bite. After the Sprint test I climbed into a Modified, backed it in harder then ever, so I know it can still be done, altho I about flipped the Mod over bouncing through the holes.
Are Sprints really challenging on a super rough track compared to other cars? I mean, I'm looking for some input here, cause the car was a beast.
The one thing I had not mentally prepared myself for was the way the engines STOP when you get off the gas, really neat how far you can drive in the corners with that ....

As I said when I started this post, I'm a total Sprint rookie, and I'm going to share all the low and high points here. First race will be the 15th of March (we were rained out this past week).
Thanks !

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted March 04, 2003 09:08 PM  
Here is a question what bars did you have in what shock on the rr did you have any lead in the front axle and also did you have easy up shocks on the front what lr shock did you have and what bar in the rr what was it blocked at?

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted March 05, 2003 06:57 PM  
LF 1000bar 6/3 Shock
RF 1025bar 5/3 Shock + 1 turn on Bar
LR 1025bar 6/5 Shock + 1 turn on Bar
RR 1025bar 5 Shock

front blocked at 3" rear blocked 3.5"
front and rear were square or very very close
Had 5" offset LF, 3" offset RF rims (wrong)
Going to go with 4" offset both fronts
had RR spaced 19.5" center of tire from chassis (18" recommended)
had 14" stagger, 18" recommended.

The stagger and rims were due to thrashing to get ready to test, both didnt help my problem of being too tight.
Once again, the track is a paperclip shaped 3/8's, two dragstrips and 2 U turns.
Running a 6.04 gear I turned 7400 running 18.10 - 18.30's , need to run low 17's to be fast here. I felt I was getting about 60% of what the car was really able to do.
Thanks for your input.

[This message has been edited by mod4 (edited March 05, 2003).]

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted March 11, 2003 12:39 PM  
LOL, I think everyone gave up on me after I told my setup

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted March 13, 2003 09:54 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by mod4:
LOL, I think everyone gave up on me after I told my setup

Sorry i had a house fire and couldnt get back to you
Here is a set up for you to try all the way around now if it gets really slick e-mail me back at bachs_racing_engines@yahoo


block it at 3front or 2 3/4 what you fell might be right 3.5 on rear put your easy up shocks on the front and unless it gets really heavy all the time DONT TAKE THEM OFF most of the outlaws never take them off the just change their numbers of easy ups

1025 all around off the blocks to start ajust to conditions a 9500 on rr is good a 9600 on a tacky track wooks good also i run a tie down on the left side almost all the time.

I dont know about your motor but sounds to me that your not turning enough rpms you should be around 7800 to 7900 for a 360 less for 410 if you can get good forward bite run a deeper gear and dont lug your motor be easy on the gas and you will be alot faster then everyone else

Slide your wing all the way forward if the turns are sharp it will help you get into the corner better put about 30 degrees in it if your not getting enough bite slide it back about two to three holes.

your about right on offsets what tire do you run and do you run a inside bead lock on the left rear?

please e-mail me if you have any other questions that i can help you with

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted March 20, 2003 10:26 AM  
Going testing again this Saturday, right rims and more stagger this time. Will let y'all know how it goes....

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted March 22, 2003 07:46 PM  
Went testing. 950 LF Bar, both front rims @ 5" offset (new ones didn't arrive).
First two sessions could NOT get the car to pivot. Still TIGHT. Track owner (who sponsors several sprints kept walking by and saying "Lower your rear air pressure!"
Seemed completely backwards from what I wanted to do, didn't listen and kept scratching our heads, for the third session we GAVE UP and said, "Heck, it can't be any worse then we are now". Dropped 3lbs LR and RR.
Completely new car, would turn in and pivot and just completely blew my mind. We picked up three quarters of a second instantly.
I don't understand at all.... unless the softer RR tire had LESS sidebite because the sidewall was softer? Any input is WELCOME.
But I'm much happier about the car. I actually drove it, instead of it driving me. These things are awesome

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted April 06, 2003 02:08 PM  
Last night, first race.

It finally just kinda clicked. Car pivots for me, if anything I was a tick loose in warm ups, ran about a groove high and mostly watched the cars passing me seeing what I could learn.
14 or 15 cars qualified, pole time was a 16.59, I was 6th or 7th (not sure) at 17.27. While thats a long way off the pace, it was almost a second faster then when I last practiced and .60 faster then my warm up times. Plus I outqualified my buddy Robby
Started the heat on the tail, stayed out of trouble, passed a couple cars and finished 4th. Surprised myself kinda. Car was loose, moved the wing back during the race, didn't notice any real difference.
Spaced the R/R in an inch for the feature. Started on the tail, ran there and battled with my pal Robby for awhile. Car was really loose and lacked forward bite.
Coming to the white flag, rookie mistake. Two cars ahead jumped wheels, I got target fixation and got wayyyy up in the loose stuff and backed the R/R into the wall. Rim is shot, I haven't examined the ladder yet but the torque tube is still free.
Well, overall it was a really fun night, I really learned alot. Also won the Modified Feature, which helped me not be bummmed out.

#1 now is examine everything for damage and repair, #2 is improve forward bite.

Next race is in two weeks.
Thanks to everyone who has helped me on here, especially IDTG & her husband.

[This message has been edited by mod4 (edited April 06, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by mod4 (edited April 07, 2003).]

Fast132
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 34
posted April 06, 2003 09:19 PM  
Okay, he barely outqualified me. Upon reflection, I also outweigh him b 70 pounds and had the car completely full of alky. (We figured we would figure out how much it burned through the night.
Huge learning curve, the sprints are definitely foreign animals. Although I don't post much, usually Mod4 and I share everything we learn or question, and I also really appreciate the help and advice. I got 3rd in the mod feature, but I did beat him in the sprint.
Fast132

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted April 07, 2003 02:49 PM  
Robby, Robby, Robby .... I weigh 180, you're what, 225 ? And your car is like 30 pounds lighter ... I don't wanna hear you whining about the weight deal pal !

Also, you didn't mention the part about the loose wheel chasing you down the track ?
Another car lost a wheel ... it bounced off the wall ... off Rob's nose wing ... off the wall ... off Rob's right arm guard ... off the wall, and tried to hit him again, but he finally had enough and avoided it
I was right behind him laughing myself silly. Funny how he forgot about the wheel deal but mentioned the non existant weight issue .....

SLEEPY GOMEZ
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 295
posted April 07, 2003 09:45 PM  
Check with Charlie Fewell, All Star motorsports at 1-888-336-8228 or www.allstar-ms.com. He has the best set of instructional video tapes for beginning sprinters that i have seen. SLEEPY

iowa_dirt_track_girl
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 461
posted April 20, 2003 01:46 AM  
if any of you have questions that you cant get an answer to you can e-mail my brother at alexander62003@yahoo.com or my dad at alexandervl@yahoo.com. We race in KNOXVILLE IOWA the 360 sprints. Dad has been racing for 23 years and brother has been racing for 7 years, so they could help you out.
Hope this helps you..

dirty driver
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 6
posted April 22, 2003 10:59 PM  
That's really nice of you dirt track girl. I was talking to a Danny Lee Hutchins on Hoseheads who will probably be looking for some guidance. I respond to his last post but haven't gotten a reply. He might not have liked what I had to say even though all I was trying to do is help. Maybe I'm all messed up but anyone with zero driving experience wanting to go straight to Knoxville is in for a rude awakening. Could you follow this link for me and help this guy out? Thanks
http://www.racercity.com/cforum.cgi?action=message&clubs=&forum=hosehead&thread=1050523087,29427

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted April 25, 2003 04:33 PM  
Hey Dirty Driver, whats it mean when you said "Watch out for drivers in Black uniforms" ? Is it a Knoxville thing ?

dirty driver
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 6
posted April 25, 2003 04:47 PM  
Just a particular driver I don't care for. No big deal. It's kinda like what they say about Harleys "if you have to ask". Not meaning to be a wise guy or anything but there's a driver up there with a particularly bad rep and deservedly so. Thanks for asking.

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted May 07, 2003 09:44 AM  
More rookie Questions !

Somebody PLEASE explain to me how a SOFTER front torsion bar transfers more weight to the rear. I have played with the car on jack and stands and still have a problem seeing how a softer rate of sprint lets the weight transfer, the bar is pushing down on the axle, holding the chassis up, just like a regular spring ...

Steve Smith book claims softer front bar transfers more weight, Sport Allen also in the new SprintCar and Midget Mag.

I'm obviously missing a basic concept here and need somebody to make me understand it.

Thanks in advance !

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted May 12, 2003 09:17 AM  
Okay, since my torsion bar Q was such a hit, I'm trying another Q :

Front Axle kingpin bosses were worn when I bought the car, been dealing with it until now. Got a replacement front axle, and the new bosses are slightly taller. The old axle had roller bearings everywhere, because the guy had mounted the kingpins solid by bolting them through the bosses.
Bearings under the kingpin cap, between spindle and bosses, under the cap on the bottom.
The new bosses/spindles fit tight enough that all I can do is get a roller under the bottom of the spindle against the axle (where I think most of the load would be?) and two thin spacers above the spindle. The Kingpin rotates nice and free, and there is very little play, am I doing this right?
Thanks again ....

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted May 18, 2003 09:43 AM  
Still looking for an answer to the torsion bar Q above. Why do softer front bars transfer more weight ?

Ran the car last night with the new front axle. Holy Moly, it's NICE to be able to take a hand off the steering wheel to pull a tearoff without fearing for my life ! The thing actually drives like a racecar now ! I can't believe how much easier it was to drive and race. When I kept telling people how freakin twitchy the car was, they kept telling me "thats the way sprints are".

No, thats the way sprints are that have something wrong! I sure wish I had let a more experienced driver sort out the chassis now, I could have saved a lot of time. The old axle had some kingpin wear, along with being offset to the left about 2". New axle is a straight up 50", running 10* or so of caster. Old axle also had no camber in RF, new axle has some.

This was the first feature I was able to race and enjoy it. Without having to fight the car all the way down the straights, it's alot easier to be ready for the corners !

rdwind
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 7
posted June 04, 2003 06:51 PM  
mod4 believe it or not but your posts have actually helped me out. I just bought my first sprint car and am having a very interesting time finding out what is correct and what is not. I can not count the number of times the answer has been "thats how sprint cars are" good luck and I will post any thing that I figure out in case it might help you. You sure saved me a lot of trouble on the front axle situation. Thanks Again. [/B][/QUOTE]


dirty driver
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 6
posted June 06, 2003 08:30 AM  
Mod4, let me take a stab at your question "Why do softer front bars transfer more weight?"

Well, I'm no pro and I haven't read this in a book anywhere and I didn't ask anyone but I think I do have the answer. This is just my gut feeling about your question that seems to be going unanswered. Keep in mind the correct shocks will be needed anyway but to eliminate variables assume they are correct and remain unchanged in both of the following scenarios. A stiff bar keeps the front end from diving on entry. If the front end didn't go down, it won't come back up either. With me so far? If you soften the front end with bars then it should dive more on entry and lift more on exit thereby allowing more weight transfer. The testing you were doing in your shop amounted to static testing. To check for weight transfer would you need to do dynamic testing. That's done on the track with your **** strapped in and the loud pedal mashed. I hope this helps.

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted June 06, 2003 03:12 PM  
Thanks !
What you said makes perfect sense, I just never thought it through to where the weight was coming from and going to. I think the best thing about these boards is all the different angles people look at things with.
Appreciate your input.

dirty driver
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 6
posted June 06, 2003 05:51 PM  
I hope it helps. If you give it a try, let me know. Later...

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted July 30, 2003 07:59 AM  
More Rookie Fun folks . Told ya I was going to post the good and the bad ....

I found the best way to completely fill your engine with alcohol !

First, have an ignition or some other problem that stops the engine from running, but not turning over. Try to start it several times, then leave the fuel on. Before you load it in the trailer, be sure to top off the fuel cell with all the other fuel you bought. Then drive home and find alky puddled in the trailer coming out the exhaust pipes, and the motor full.

It was really quite easy for me....

Being that the alky floats on the oil,(so I wasn't worried about the pickup getting alky) I took the plugs out, rotated the motor and pumped the alky out of the cylinders, then ran WD-40 through them. Then drained several gallons of oil / alky.

Lesson learned ....

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted July 30, 2003 08:30 AM  
Hi Mod4,

Sorry about your ignition problems but very lucky for you about finding the over-fueled situation. When coming into the pits do you shut off your fuel to kill the engine or hit the mag kill switch?. Shutting off the fuel will burn off anything left in the lines that may leak into the cylinders. A good habit too is to back up a car...any race car while in-gear and the ignition off. This will pump out the exhaust any fuel that may have settled in the engine cylinders. An engine that is "hydraulic-locked" causes a tremendous amount of damage. This procedure also helps prevent oil delution by fuel.

As your engine was flooded with methanol, you may have to thoroughly flush it with fresh oil and change the filter several times before racing it again. Then change it again after your first race. You can save money by using cheaper off-the-shelf non racing oil but be careful about non-racing oil filters. Even a race engine at idle can over-pressurize stock filters causing them to collapse internally.

Thanks for your update!!

Best regards,
Gerry Dedonis

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KSGerry

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted July 30, 2003 10:22 AM  
I normally use the fuel shut off to kill the engine, this time I guess because the car wasn't running (due to the ignition) I just neglected to shut the valve.

I've been taught about "backing the car off" - if you leave the fuel on in the pits for a short time or if you spin on track and kill the motor, I was told to back it off.

I'm going to change oil / filter and run it up to temp, then change the oil/filter again and run a few laps, then check what the oil looks like / change again if needed.

thanks for your input.

oh, and I have a new webpage / sponsor :
http://www.gotnutsgear.com/racing/Drivers/jasonlowe/jasonlowe.htm

Check it out, this company is really cool.

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted July 30, 2003 01:28 PM  
Yeah I knew you were an experienced racer so I should have directed my comments to those unfamiliar with these procedures. Sometimes the basic stuff seems to get overlooked.
Regards,
Gerry

PS...Great website too!! One would think that having a serious accident would keep you out of racing. However, racing wasn't the cause of your wreck!! I like that you come from a different racing background. Occasionally, I sell engines to builders like Quicksilver and Carbir and enjoy watching ( better to drive than to watch! ) road course events. I guess I'm just a "racing whore". ;>)
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KSGerry

[This message has been edited by KSGerry (edited July 30, 2003).]

goinrcn44h
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 205
posted August 02, 2003 12:59 AM  

 
I just happened to find this message board yesterday, And I wish I could have seen your posts about front axles, offsets, and all that sooner I could have made your life a ton easier. My car is a 2000 stealth, And so far, there is only one thing that really differs from almost any other car, is the fact that it uses the 13 1/4" w-link which really tightens the car on entry, and also gets sweet bite off the left rear leavin the corner. Which link does your car use? And if I remember correct you are runnin a 3/8 with tight corners, so what gear are you running? that will make it easier for me to picture the size of the track, and also what kind of RPM are you turning. I have some things figured out for stealths that may be of great use to ya.. but maybe not...u can email me direct if ya like, and send me a pic too.
goinrcn44H@hotmail.com or
goinrcn44@aol.com
44H

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted August 02, 2003 07:38 PM  

 
My car is a 1998, supposedly with all "2002" updates. What this means, I have no clue.

My "W Link" is 14". The bottom hole is fixed, the upper hole has three options.

The track I run mostly is Putnam County. Think Martinsville, a paperclip. I'm running a 6.04 and turning 7500. There are two wet sump guys there, I am one of them - this lower end used to be a limited late model motor - we put the heads and injection on and called it my "learning motor".
I'm not getting eaten alive down the straights - and I carry it in pretty well - but the middle and off are my weak points. The car (to me, using baseline setups) is REALLY tight in ... it won't turn. I stab the brakes enough to get it turned and then I am loose center and off. I don't mind being loose, but the tight tight tight in really bothers me. I've run Putnam, East Bay, both 3/8's and Volusia County, a 1/2 mile .. and the car is consistantly tight on entry . Wing has always been forward, at least until fuel burn off has forced me to move it back just to maintain forward bite.

Any help you can give me would be great. The Stealth guys, while really nice on the phone, between me having a 5 year old car and being a Modified driver .. well, I kinda feel like I was asking Q's that were making them laugh. When I started talking corner weights, they really did laugh ...

Your input here or by email would be great, I am at mod4racing@yahoo.com

Thanks.

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted August 04, 2003 05:22 PM  
Whee, more rookie screw-ups.

I had previously posted about the failure of my MSD Spark Box / Magneto.

Well, I'm a dummy. Both the Spark Box and Magneto were fine. Why they failed to spark during the "tests" was probably me being a dork as well. I owe MSD & their Tech people an "I am sorry" cause I talked smack about the product. I was wrong.

What was it ? The cam spud had stripped out. No fuel was being pumped. The fuel in the lines when I checked was due to having a full tank - it was putting enough pressure on the pickup to act like fuel was flowing (well, I said, the lines are full, it must be pumping). I'm an idiot !

Another lesson learned, I sure hope my mess ups will save somebody else the time and frustration (and embarrasment) I'm giving myself.

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted August 05, 2003 07:12 AM  
Hey, good news that you found your problem! Even better is the fact that it wasn't from failure of your expensive ignition system. Did you find a reason for the cam spud to strip? Check your fuel and power steering pumps (if you run a tandem system) to make sure there is no debris. Perhaps the spud stripping out was a "saving" measure preventing damage to a jammed pump? We had that happen twice, killing a KSE pump due to cuttings left behind in the new Schroeder steering box and no filter between the reservoir and pump. Only cost us a thousand dollars to learn that lesson!!
Regards,
Gerry

[This message has been edited by KSGerry (edited August 05, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by KSGerry (edited August 05, 2003).]

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted August 05, 2003 11:09 AM  
44H clued me in that spuds can strip out if you don't "center" the pumps on the spud after you install a new engine. Install the motor, slightly loosen the pump bolts, fire the motor and tighten the pumps down after it "centers" itself.

Since I didn't do that and since Titanium is so soft, I can't really blame the Spud. Also the fact my pump is used, maybe the drive is slightly worn causing more slop and wear.

New Spud is steel, got it fit correctly (I think) and heading to East Bay in Tampa this weekend to give it another try.

Sprinter 53
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 2
posted August 11, 2003 05:44 PM  
Mod4,

One thing is for sure, you do analyze things. I used to be the same way. I bought all the Jimmy Sills books. Went to his class. Was getting ready to go to the Outlaw Driving School in Dallas. You have a good attitude and are learning. Here is what helped me the absolute most. Find a fellow sprint driver that gives you answers that you have a gut feeling are correct. No BS. Once you start discussing the handling with him, listen and try what he suggests. Go back after the races and tell him what you did and let him critique your decisions. Finally, when you have gained his respect and trust, ask him to hotlap the car. This will by far save you tons of time. I have about 13 shocks, that I don't use anymore, because I was figuring all this out on my own. After listening to the experienced person, I am running top 5 and having a Ball. One warning. Try to find someone in the top 5 and stick with them. Sometimes people deliberately tell you wrong or don't have a clue themselves. So gut feel is important. I would offer my help, but I don't know if our bars, wing, tire combo, would compare to yours. We race on quarter mile tracks with 16ft wings. Hope this helps. Good Luck.
Bill

KSGerry
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 376
posted August 12, 2003 08:41 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by mod4:
44H clued me in that spuds can strip out if you don't "center" the pumps on the spud after you install a new engine. Install the motor, slightly loosen the pump bolts, fire the motor and tighten the pumps down after it "centers" itself.

Since I didn't do that and since Titanium is so soft, I can't really blame the Spud. Also the fact my pump is used, maybe the drive is slightly worn causing more slop and wear.

New Spud is steel, got it fit correctly (I think) and heading to East Bay in Tampa this weekend to give it another try.


Ah yes...I should have remembered the "centering" step to align the pump with the cam spud. This happened to our sprint team before I came on-board and with their previous car. On the current car, I installed studs threaded into the motor plate with a locking nut on the engine side. Then the pumps can be backed away from the motor plate when installing the engine but still be suspended. We also fill the cam spud with grease to take up any slop then push the pumps against the motor plate.
Regards,
Gerry

------------------
KSGerry

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted August 30, 2003 11:11 PM  
Motor runs fine @ idle. At exactly half throttle to WOT has a "lean" miss. Runs very warm under load (+30* hotter then usual).

I am thinking my Kinsler High Speed Bypass Diaphram has taken a **** - it's not a plug, what else would only be doing this under hard load ......

Ideas including agreein with me welcome ?

goinrcn44h
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 205
posted September 02, 2003 01:40 PM  
whats the hi-speed pop-off pressure ?
when was the last time you verified what it was set at?
what is the reading now?
are u running a secondary?
if so, whats its pressure set at?

44H

PS: are the nozzles clean?

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted September 04, 2003 05:08 PM  
Here are my settings, the High Speed has NOT been checked since the problem occured - I don't have the gauge, the engine builder does. I will be getting one ASAP.

These are the settings we started with :
Main Bypass - 72 Jet
High Speed Adjustable - 58-60pds .050 Jet
Secondary - 38-40pds.

Everything is clean, since we have had so many rain outs (12 in the last 14 races) I'm thinking that sitting around, the High Speed Diaphram gave it up, and am going to check it as soon as I get a gauge.

Thoughts on setting ?

goinrcn44h
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 205
posted September 04, 2003 08:00 PM  
your main and secondary settings look real good, The hi-speed pressure is good, but the pill looks a little fat, but not by much... I personally run mine at 64 pounds, w/ a .070 pill...
As for the gauge, they are super simple to build... all u need is a rugulator( just about any style will work) and a good reliable gauge. put an air fitting (male) on the inlet side of the regulator, then the gauge on the outlet side, then after the gauge use either a male #6 then a hose then a female, or you can come off the gauge directly with a female #6 fitting. you also will obviously need a T after the regulator, but thats the first thing I built when I started these things.. I had some sources for these parts that everyone won't have, but you can still do it cheaper than buying one off the shelf, and they usually work better, I know mine does. I even use a liquid filled gauge on mine, but those are pretty spendy and you dont have to have one to make it accurate...
44H

mod4
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 223
posted September 11, 2003 10:21 PM  
Checked today. Both pop off settings were about 10# lower then when they were set, is this enough to cause my (supposed) lean condition ? The plugs look a little lean, but not horrible ... I hope I dont have another issue and this is just me chasing my tail.
Another stupid rookie Q ... why did the popoff settings get lower ? Do the Springs give it up that fast, or does a Kinser High Speed adjustable run a spring at all ? I didnt take it apart yet, just checked it.
The Secondary spring looks bowed, am I suppoesed to take the pressure off them when not racing ?

goinrcn44h
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 205
posted September 14, 2003 07:10 PM  
As for the Kinsler adjustable hi-speed, I have no idea, never used one. I do know thats what Guy ran when I was workin with him, but all he ever did was change it. However, they should not lose settings. My lo-speed has stayed right where I want it, ever since I have set it(42 psi) All I do is open it up, clean it out, wd-40 it all up and then re-assemble, then check it on the gauge. then re-install. I would assume just flushing the Kinsler with wd or something weekly and then blow it thru like it popped off, then check your pressures you should be OK. You may just call Kinsler and ask what they suggest for the hi-speed.
And to answer your question, if the low-speed was 10 pounds low, and it was suppose to be at 38 you said, that would put it at 28. There is your low/mid range miss, and also your heating problem. The hi-speed being 10 under just compounded the problem further. TRUST ME... check/clean/verifythat low speed every....EVERY week or after you race , whatever. See how big a pain in the but they can be. you got lucky in the fact I spent 2 months chasin the same thing...lol
Oh and by the way, I raced friday and saturday night over in Oregon, Friday was a train wreck... pathetic, had to qualify first out and track was junk still... never could get out of the hole time-ins put me in. Sat night wasn't much better, qualified bad again(more to that story) and then on lap 1 in the B, I made a great couple moves and had passed 5 cars before we had gotten off turn 2, well, a guy had bicycled in 1, and then a car had checked up when he seen the car bicycle and turn right, so I squared him up, and just pinned it, had them passed and all was good until the idiot came flyin back on the track WFO... I didnt have time to even react... I flipped clear down the backchute.. but other than wings and front axle it coulda been worse, way worse...
later,
44H

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