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Author Topic:   Header clearance
odb93
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 537
posted January 28, 2005 08:51 PM  
81 cutlass
400 small block chevy max set back #1 plug in line with ball joint.
Angle plug heads.
Tilton mini-starter

I have been using an old pair of big body stock chevelle headers. They cleared everything fine. However they were melting our plug wires.

I bought a set of 185 Scheofelds. Two of the tubes are agains the starter. The other tubes will not clear the lower control arm mount.

I can't be the first guy to have this problem. I can move the motor farther to the left but this does not help the starter situation.

I have ordered a set of 155 (or 154) that go exit through the fenders and over the frame.

Please provide some input.

Footlead
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 24
posted January 28, 2005 08:57 PM  
I have the schoenfeld 185's on my metric cutlass and they don't hit nothing but I had to beat the firewall back with a hammer when I moved the motor back! They fit nicely!!!!!!!

racin78p
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 333
posted January 29, 2005 02:23 AM  
I run Shoenfeld #185V headers on a 85' regal (82' cutlass body) 355 ci. motor. Had starter problems (too big to remove without dropping the header) so bought a smaller starter. Had to ding a few tubes to get the header bolts in. Had to notch the scatter shield (by the starter) to be able to remover header from car without lifting the motor. We have about 1 1/2" engine set-back. And I still run Shoenfelds. You would think that a guy would get another set from some other manufacturer,...

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racin78p
if it ain't fun, then don't run

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted January 29, 2005 10:17 PM  
schoenfeld headers **** ...if it is a mini starter, there are 3 bolts you can take out of the front and rotate the housing for clearance..

odb93
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 537
posted January 31, 2005 11:00 AM  
Footlead are you running a ministarter and big flywheel?

Racin78p I just can't believe that this a new problem. I know every car is different. But this has to be an old problem. Starter was $300. Has been run two races. I refuse to buy another. Shoenfeld may not be the answer. But I have been told this a good header for the money.
The header did not hit the lower control arm mount?

Thanks for the input.

Has any one tried the over the frame headers?

[This message has been edited by odb93 (edited January 31, 2005).]

Deak-Jr
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 81
posted February 01, 2005 02:06 PM  
(I posted this over on the Street Stock board, I'll post here as well. Thanks.)

'84 Monte Carlo, 4-speed BUT no stock linkage (homemade cable setup). 400 sbc, stock rods/pistons/crank, dbl-hunp heads, stock intake, q-jet carb, 280 cam. Gotta pull 12" vac @ 1K.

I looked at the Schoenfields suggested from some posts here (185M & 186M). Says they'll fit.

But my main question is tube size -- 1-5/8" (3" collector) vs 1-3/4" (3-1/2" collector). With a generally pure-stock motor, how much does tube size figure in -- bigger the better, or smaller for back-pressure?

Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks.


hobby10k
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 226
posted February 03, 2005 05:12 AM  
I always just took a hammer to the headers for those little clearance pro8lems, pro8a8ly not the 8est way though

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LIVE RACING, WHAT ELSE IT THERE?

odb93
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 537
posted February 03, 2005 10:48 AM  
Deak jr. Doug at Shoenfeld told me not run any bigger than 1 5/8 unless you were pushing more than 400 hp.


Hobby I hate beat on some brand new headers.

racin78p
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 333
posted February 03, 2005 01:43 PM  
I've had the flu so sorry I haven't replied odb93. Keep in mind that we set the engine back about 1 1/2" so lower control arm mount wasn't a problem, or it would have been (we noticed that!) The first mini starter I put in the car was a TCI, and when it went bottom end up we tried to get it out and a new one in without removing the header. Didn't happen. So we jacked the motor up, worked the scattershield some on the flange (to be able to remove the header easier) and bolted the new starter in. I spend about $300 on that starter also. I can't remember the brand, but it is small enough that we don't have to remove the header now to replace it if necessary. I was told the Shoenfeld's were the header to buy also from guys around here who run the factory stock class like I do. Took their word on it. But they didn't run the High Velocity headers that I bought. We can't run over the frame headers (my mechanic would love it) so can't say about them. I have heard good stuff about flowtech headers and am currently looking into them as I need a new set anyway. They are half the price of the Shoen's I originally bought.

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racin78p
if it ain't fun, then don't run

racin78p
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 333
posted February 03, 2005 01:56 PM  
Sorry Deak-Jr. I ment to reply to your post as well. I prefer small dia. tube vs. large for small cube motors with head/valve size restrictions. 1 5/8" more than enough for a "stock" type class. Gets you good torque which you will need out of the corners. 3" collector is fine too. The Shoenfelds I mentioned above are a step header. The tubes coming off the flanges are 1 1/2" then go to 1 5/8" tubes ending up with a 3" collector. The other size you can order is 1 5/8" into 1 3/4". I ordered them through Speedway. Suppossed to give you more torque out of the corners.

I had to do the same as Hobby10k did though. Heated up the tubes to "dent" them where header bolts wouldn't go through the flanges. Nothing like messaging metal!

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racin78p
if it ain't fun, then don't run

odb93
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 537
posted February 04, 2005 10:28 AM  
The 155 over the frame headers did not work. They hit the firewall.
We moved the firewall back when we built the car, but I guess by moving motor back as well.....

I talked to Dynatech and they said their headers should not hit the starter and they will work.
I may call flowtech as well.

Just thought I would let everyone know.


robhbk24
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 372
posted February 04, 2005 06:19 PM  
i have a metric also with the firewall set back and the motor set pretty far back, this is the first year we can run headers and i ran in to the problem with my frame underneath i am running a 2 X 3 frame straight off the front stub on the pass side like a mod with the pass side cage mounted to it and the frame follows the contour of the tranny tunnel on the driver side hooking in near the brake prop valve.i test fit reg headers and they would run into the driver side frame and be close to the pass side. i got a set of headman shorty header for a 3rd gen camaro the pass clears the starter no prob the driver side will be close to the steering on the #7 pipe i won't know till i get the motor back but worst case scenario i have to have an inch max takin out of the pipes right next to the flange and then rewelded.

sc1 racing
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 419
posted February 05, 2005 11:47 PM  
hey do you still have the over frame headers? we can modify our firewalls, and id love to get a set for this camaro. i am just about to order a new set, but id give money to another racer quicker than a speed shop...LOL

i like the exhaust comming out the doors...

racin78p
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 333
posted February 06, 2005 02:05 AM  
odb93: I ordered a set of Flow Tech Afterburner headers from Summit Racing, part # BIG - 49100 FLT. These are comparable to the Shoenfelds I was running. Will not fit angle plug heads, and can't use stock manual shift linkage. I use a cable set up for the clutch chores so it won't matter for me. The price is $145 for the Flow's. Shoens are $210. Flows are painted (you can get 'em ceramic coated too) and the Shoens aren't. I believe I will be happy. Just an up-date for you!

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racin78p
if it ain't fun, then don't run

odb93
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 537
posted February 08, 2005 08:26 PM  
Thanks for the update, however I do have angle plug heads. That is why we are buying new headers in the first place.

I am pretty sure the headers we have fit a big body chevelle, but they dont like the angle plugs.


quote:
Originally posted by racin78p:
odb93: I ordered a set of Flow Tech Afterburner headers from Summit Racing, part # BIG - 49100 FLT. These are comparable to the Shoenfelds I was running. Will not fit angle plug heads, and can't use stock manual shift linkage. I use a cable set up for the clutch chores so it won't matter for me. The price is $145 for the Flow's. Shoens are $210. Flows are painted (you can get 'em ceramic coated too) and the Shoens aren't. I believe I will be happy. Just an up-date for you!



odb93
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 537
posted February 24, 2005 04:04 PM  
Update.
Just ordered a set of Dyna's from dirt track thunder. They were $20 cheaper then anywhere else I could find em and shipping was FREE!!!

I will give up the good fight and make them fit if they don't work just right.

I will post up later after we put it all together.

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