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Author Topic:   what do i add to the oil and gas to go faster?
rogracer2
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 119
posted July 13, 2004 03:21 PM  
I have heard of different products you can add to the fuel and/or oil to improve engine compression, lower oil temps, and even increase the octane levels. Does anyone have any experience using anything that was successful in increasing their on the track performance?

jbracing
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 44
posted July 13, 2004 04:38 PM  
I used 104+ brand octane booster at twice
the recomended "dose" with Amoco 93 octane
pump gas. The engine was an 11:1 350, and
it ran great with 36 degrees of advance and never hurt itself. It was
in a modified, so it's relatively light
weight may have contributed to it working out. Just built a flat top 350 with a 390/410 cam (no vacuum rule) for a pure stock, and I'm planning on running the same
fuel mix. What are you guys running for fuel
in motors like this?
Thanks,
John

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted July 13, 2004 05:37 PM  
Im with racer17j on this one

if you are under 9-1 compression, your wasting time and money.

rogracer2
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 119
posted July 13, 2004 07:57 PM  
so running higher octane in a low compression engine wont significantly improve performance? what about the "magic" formulas you can add to the motor oil to increase compression?


bigcityracer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 431
posted July 13, 2004 09:56 PM  
Run synthetic oil to free up the engine.

Add nitro to the fuel to gain horsepower.
Product Name: PRO-BLEND FAST FORWARD NITRO POWER OCTANE BOOST - 16 OZ. CAN - #PRB1616
Product ID: PRB1616
Category: Lubricants & Fluids
Manufacturer: Pro Blend
Description: Instant 30 plus horsepower. 16 oz

mrteeshot
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 127
posted July 14, 2004 07:25 AM  
so then a low comp engine using 87 octane is goin to put out the same power as a guy using the 92/93 octane or using the 110 at the track ????
youd think that even the older engines that were designed for high octane would have spark nock or pingin

I have a 72 olds rocket engine it was designed to use 101 or higher you think i`m wasting my cheese on 93 from marathon and adding a octane booster

supwitchew
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 122
posted July 14, 2004 09:06 AM  
If your motor is designed for 101 octane, then run 101 octane. They are just saying that if your motor is lower compression and will run on 87 octane, then running racing fuel is a waste of money. You shouldn't run an octane level any higher than what your motor needs.

mod70
unregistered Total posts: 122
posted July 14, 2004 09:34 AM           send a private message to supwitchew   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/QuoteBBBBBB
The deal with octane rating is as you increase compression you need to increase octane. 87 oct should be good for engines up to 10.5:1 if you go over 12:1 I'd go over 100 oct, and over 14:1 go to 104 oct.
The only thing that will increase performance as far as oil is concerned (not talking about temps) is to run a lighter weight oil, but if you go too light, boom! The lighter oil will allow parts to spin more freely.

Deak-Jr
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 81
posted July 14, 2004 09:35 AM  
Some of the older heads without hardened valve seats have to run leaded, or at least a lead additive -- maybe that's what you were thinking instead of "higher compression". 9-to-1 is 9-to-1, no matter what the year.

With that in mind, here's a question:

#1) Does race-gas have lead?
#2) If not, does anyone use a lead additive they're comfortable using?

We're gonna run some old 461 heads w/o hardened seats; we run (ballpark) 9.5/10-to-1 and run 94 gas. I want to mix either some race gas in or put in an additive to get lead. From what I have read and heard, I am not crazy about using a lead additive product. Any thoughts?

supwitchew
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 122
posted July 14, 2004 12:00 PM  
Most race gases have lead in them. There are some being made now that are unleaded. Most people I know are mixing their 91 octane with racing fuel.

sleadhead44
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 109
posted July 14, 2004 02:40 PM  
Deak Jr, regarding adding lead, I know a guy who gets his fuel at the airport they call it "101 low lead" or "103 low lead" somthing like that. He says it is "low lead" for airplaine fuel, but high lead for autos. I have not tried it, but he seems to like it.

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted July 14, 2004 04:18 PM  
This is not the octane booster junk. This is series horse power additive. They claim 35 to 40 horse, but it's not cheap.

PRO-BLEND CTX-2 CIRCLE TRACK EXPERIMENTAL FUEL ADDITIVE
$90.00 per - 1 GALLON CAN - #PRB1650

M1
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 257
posted July 14, 2004 08:10 PM  
bigcityracer

Whats that stuff smell like when its burnt though.

I remember the "old days" when a guy would go by with something funny in his gas, and all the heads in the pits would turn as he went by, followed by the wide nostril look.....

bigcityracer
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 431
posted July 14, 2004 08:25 PM  
I personally can't afford that additive stuff. I run the basic 110 racing fuel.

[This message has been edited by bigcityracer (edited July 19, 2004).]

rico 08
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1139
posted July 16, 2004 08:19 PM  
I don't think it's a waste of money to use racing fuel,you are racing right?That low octane stuff just isn't made for racing conditions...i've seen alot of motors ruined(even 9-1 motors)on 93 octane(check out the pistons coming apart thread in engine tech),as far as losing horses you can bump up the timing to get it back and then some.IMHO

WesternAuto17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 569
posted July 19, 2004 08:26 AM  
A 9 to 1 motor didn't blow up because it was running 93 instead 104 octane racing fuel. She blew up for some other reason. Octane is far from the only cause of detonation and the subsequent piston damage. I had a 11 to 1 406 detonate itself to death on 110 octane sunoco fuel because of a vacuum leak in the carb.

Hi compression needs hi octane, low compression will not benefit from hi octane.

I also don't believe that running hi octane fuel in a low compression engine will allow you to run more timing advance. We run 36 degrees on 110 fuel. Am I mistaken on that?

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5390
posted July 19, 2004 03:54 PM  
when i got into racing a guy that I bought my stuff off of and man it did make a world of difference. he had 5 extra gal of it but I could not afford it So when I ran out I switched to reg racing fuel. Bobby

kyuss71
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted July 19, 2004 09:00 PM  
Our 9:1 motor made more horspower & torque with 93 oct. as opposed to 104 oct.on the dyno. we figure the 93 burns slower. Timing is @ 36.

supwitchew
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 122
posted July 20, 2004 02:20 PM  
You have it backwards. The higher the octane rating, the slower the burn. I wouldn't really think of it that way though. Think of it this way: Octane rating is related to how much compression the fuel can withstand before spontaneously combusting. The higher the octane, the more compression it can withstand before igniting. Everyone here knows that when you put lower octane fuel in a higher compression motor, you can get "knocking". This happens because the compression ignites the fuel before the spark does. In your case, the reason you showed more horsepower using 93 octane is because at 9:1, the motor was able to burn it more efficiently than at 104 octane. I hope I haven't confused anybody.

WesternAuto17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 569
posted July 22, 2004 07:52 AM  
Well stated, supwitchew. Running hi octane fuel won't make your 9 to 1 engine won't make power any more than running deisel fuel will. My deisel truck is 18:1 compression, should I run deisel in the stock car?

Uh, no.

The only thing you can add to gas and oil to make horsepower is a better engine.

juliaferrell
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 370
posted July 22, 2004 08:22 AM  
I don't know 17....that pro-blend nitro will put some snap into things. At 90 a gal it should and does!!


supwitchew
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 122
posted July 22, 2004 09:21 AM  
Those kind of additives do work to a certain extent. Most of them work because they are heavily oxygenated. More oxygen = greater capacity for burning. Make sure to read the directions. Most of them will require an increase in jet size to offset the lean conditions these additives cause.

WesternAuto17
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 569
posted July 22, 2004 10:03 AM  
You're right. Oxygenating agents will increase horsepower in the exact same way that Nitrous adds power. That was the kind of additive that Peter Suspenzo got suspended from NASCAR for a while. He dumped some of it in Jeremy Mayfield's fuel cell at Talladega a few years ago.

rickb33
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 99
posted July 24, 2004 08:54 AM  
been running a 9.5:1 motor on 91 octane, what can I use as an oxygenate to make more power.Is there any household item, or something that can be bought at home depot, etc.

iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted July 31, 2004 12:56 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by WesternAuto17:
A 9 to 1 motor didn't blow up because it was running 93 instead 104 octane racing fuel. She blew up for some other reason. Octane is far from the only cause of detonation and the subsequent piston damage. I had a 11 to 1 406 detonate itself to death on 110 octane sunoco fuel because of a vacuum leak in the carb.

Hi compression needs hi octane, low compression will not benefit from hi octane.

I also don't believe that running hi octane fuel in a low compression engine will allow you to run more timing advance. We run 36 degrees on 110 fuel. Am I mistaken on that?


your motor didn't detonate itself to death it was way to lean and burned up a piston
and yea you can run more timing with higher octane i have ran sbc flat tops up to 44 degrees without pinging and didn't ruin anything

iowatoolman
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 369
posted July 31, 2004 01:03 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by rickb33:
been running a 9.5:1 motor on 91 octane, what can I use as an oxygenate to make more power.Is there any household item, or something that can be bought at home depot, etc.

yea but it is not at home depot it is at your local parts place it is nitrous oxide
or nos or go fast in a bottle or juice or if you are running a diesel you can add propane as a go fast in a bottle
any other names you all can think of???????

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