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Author Topic:   Carbs
dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 11, 2005 01:23 PM  
Who builds a good one??
Thanks for the recommendations

bill9j
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 35
posted October 11, 2005 08:45 PM  
i have heard that kinetic performance is a good carb shop up here in canada we use dse1

bill9j
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 35
posted October 11, 2005 08:51 PM  
darrin i think you can find some of kinetics adds on the classifieds for this board where abouts do you guys race and what classified boards do you use for your area thanks Bill

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 12, 2005 01:29 PM  
We run in VT and NH, DTD and Flag2flag as far as classifieds . Have anybody used dambbest or Taco????

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted October 12, 2005 07:28 PM  
We're right here: http://www.kineticperformance.net
or email: kineticperformance@thedirtforum.com

Taco's carbs rival ours but cost a LOT more..

Our stuff has been on many NY dirt track championship winning cars (and pavement too). We've won at places like Fulton, Utica/Rome, Blackrock, Chemung, Tioga, Thunder Mt, Skyline, and numerous other tracks on the DIRT circuit.

Anything I can do or answer for ya, just ask.

Dayton Umholtz, co-owner
Kinetic Performance
Ithaca, NY

[This message has been edited by KPLugnut (edited October 12, 2005).]

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 12, 2005 08:33 PM  
KP
Thanx for your interest...we run a 358 with open carb rules...what would you recommend and how much is it going to hurt..trying to work out the budget...Our old 750 is just plain worn out.
Darin

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted October 13, 2005 06:53 AM  
The most cost effective thing would be for us to restore your 750, which we specialize in. For an "open rules" situation, you're still at a 358ci motor size, so HUGE is not better. What we do is build "hybrid" carbs that utilize 750HP bodies with 850/950 baseplates, custom blocks and full oval track setup. They have quick, crisp response yet still feed good HP for the longer tracks as well.
Very popular these days with the open late models, as well.
There's also a combo we build a lot of that starts with the 650 body and then we mate it to an 850 base. VERY large booster signal in those. They work really well for short tracks and/or smaller CI motors. Some of the superstock guys like 'em too...

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 13, 2005 12:47 PM  
I'm amazed at some of the variance in price...bambest's open rules 650 is $1300..that really hurts...Taco's are$1000

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted October 13, 2005 12:56 PM  
And our "open rules" gas 650 is only $750....

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 14, 2005 07:47 AM  
KP
can ya tell me a lil(no need for secrets) about the physics involved with mating a 650 and a 850..It would seem to really force feed the air if I'm getting the drift. Where is it causing all of the torque???
DB

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted October 14, 2005 08:11 AM  
It has to do with altering or getting away from the standard ratio between the venturi diameter and the newly enlarged baseplate diameter, and the low pressure signal generated because of that. Also, booster design, placement in relation to the peak signal point, and alignment/position of the fuel entry point from the booster that makes such a difference. Knowing where that sweet spot occurs in any carb and how to feed it properly is the key.
You'll find very few "off-the-shelf" carbs with consistency in these areas.
And builders who know how to find these "sweet spots", calibrate the entire carb to make use of these peak signals, and still fit all tech guages...well, THOSE are the ones making good numbers, winning races, and being talked about as the "special" carb builders/tuners. Unfortunately, this field is FULL of guys who CLAIM their stuff is the best, but have little knowledge of these things and all they can do is throw hollow claims of high CFM numbers at the racers thru sales pitches and catch phrases, yet all they're selling you is an inconsistant off-the-shelf carb with their sticker on it.
For more info on this, and other tips, there are 2 good articles in the October '05 issue of Late Model Racer magazine...one has pictures of my carbs and is co-written by myself and Charles Reichard (a good friend of mine), and the other by a great builder named John Dickey (owner of AED).

Hope that helps, sorry it's so long.

KP

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 14, 2005 09:29 AM  
thanx KP
..Do ya have some pictures of your open rules 650 that you can post

[This message has been edited by dbradley (edited October 14, 2005).]

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted October 14, 2005 07:55 PM  

 
Here's an example of our work. Granted, this is not the eliminator 650 we're talking about, it's our Busch 390 carb, but I've gotta build another 650 so I can take pics for ya, I just shipped out the last one we had here to a NJ 358 team.

KP

[This message has been edited by KPLugnut (edited October 15, 2005).]

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted October 15, 2005 06:54 PM  
btt

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 16, 2005 08:11 AM  
What a nice looking piece KP
Darin

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 16, 2005 07:07 PM  
KP,
We have decided to run a 1/2 mile track with some banking as well as the two 1/4 mile flat tracks next year...Is the 650/850 hybrid still the way to go??

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted October 17, 2005 10:42 AM  
What are the carb rules, specifically? Or is it "unsanctioned" and no specific tech?
If it helps, feel free to continue this in private thru email: kineticperformance@thedirtforum.com

KP

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 17, 2005 11:44 AM  
kplugnut
the 1/4 mile tracks:
Engines
o Will be in accordance with the D.I.R.T. rulebook.
o Any carburetor allowed. One (1) 4-barrel maximum.

The half mile track is CVRA:
CVRA allows only stock 4 barrel carbs..all "special" carbs mustbe preapproved

[This message has been edited by dbradley (edited October 17, 2005).]

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted October 17, 2005 12:00 PM  

 
Ahh, ok. Now I follow where you're coming from. In that case, yes, the 650 hybrid carb is the way to go especially for the short 1/4 mi tracks.
The thing to remember is most top teams don't have the SAME motor for the 1/4 miles as they do for the long 1/2 mile tracks...so consequently, you'd have 2 different carb setups as well.
But if that's not the case here, then I'd suggest either of 2 setups:

1) A 65/850 hybrid that you switch from 1:1 linkage for the 1/4 mile tracks back to progressive linkage geometry for the 1/2mile track...or...

2) A 750-based hybrid set up with 1:1 linkage and improved booster setup to eliminate any "short track lag" on the 1/4mi tracks yet it feeds anything ya got on the longer tracks

Carb setup #2 is what we do for a lot of guys in IMCA but we set that up for alky...

Carb setup #1 is real popular with heavier full-bodied stuff, too, like the superstocks at Black Rock or Woodhull.

By the way, here's an older pic of the 650/850 hybrid I found while going thru some old files I had....

Hope that helps,
KP

[This message has been edited by KPLugnut (edited October 17, 2005).]

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 17, 2005 12:39 PM  
Thanx KP
Now you have to spill the beans on the progressive linkage. The tech guys wouldn't have a clue that those carbs are hybrid.
The 1/2 mile track is going to be a run for fun track while the 1/4 mile tracks we are running for the championship..The 650 eliminator sounds like the deal for us.

KPLugnut
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 1019
posted October 17, 2005 12:53 PM  
Progressive vs. 1:1 linkage. Much discussion/opinions have been traded on these forums in the past over it.
It's basically the difference between getting to 2/3-3/4 throttle before the secondaries begin opening (progressive) as compared to 1:1 linkage where just up off of idle, both secondary and primary throttle shafts function simultaneously (a bit like two 2bbls back-to-back).. BIG difference in throttle response and responsiveness.
Some drivers have a hard time getting used to it, yet others wouldn't trade it for the world...

gerald berry jr
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 32
posted October 20, 2005 12:22 PM  
we highly recommend kinetic performance! great service and prices! we're off to hagerstown this weekend dayton,last race for us,then we'll be sending it back for a tuneup! thanks, eperthener racing #333

dbradley
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 251
posted October 20, 2005 05:17 PM  
Ya know.
I have been kicking around here for over a year, and it is great to see everyone finding this site...
I sure hope we can have some great T-bar car discussions...I sure know that I can use the knowledge
thanks everyone

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