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Author Topic:   IMCA Motor Swap?
Fastride 38
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 136
posted November 25, 2005 01:58 PM  
Now, that's it's offical. I wonder if the motor rules will hold up also? For example, the no roller cam rule. Has anyone heard or read anything about that?

I personally feel if there is a claim rule there should not be any motor rules. I understand the cost issue. But isn't that what the claim rule is for?

andykmod
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 374
posted November 25, 2005 04:00 PM  
If they change anything the first thing they should bring back is the stud girdles. I don't see them changing to much in the near future.

Leaf
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 62
posted November 25, 2005 05:24 PM  
prediction.

less than 50 claims in mods and stocks

2007 brings more engine rules than ever since there werent enough swaps to keep costs down.

And\or the Beloved Crate optional in 2007 mandatory in 2008 or 2009.
non crate mods, 2 barrel carb,coming soon.

Fastride 38
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 136
posted November 25, 2005 08:03 PM  
Well, if a crate type motor finds it's way into IMCA, I will find my way into another sanctioning body. I know and I'm sure anyone who builds and tunes motors knows there is no such thing as two identical motors. Besides, cheating would get way out of hand once that motor made it into most peoples shop. A little tweak here a little twist there and wa-la. I now have 10 more horses than you.

[This message has been edited by Fastride 38 (edited November 25, 2005).]

donslink1
Dirt Freak

Total posts: 333
posted November 25, 2005 08:06 PM  
I HATE IMCA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brett Root can **** my *** !!!!!!!!!!!

racer17j
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 5433
posted November 25, 2005 10:42 PM  
Is there a new motor swap rule in IMCA? I'm hoping you tell me they have decided to let you swap rather than take $525! I always thought it would keep motors from being claimed out of spite.

roger rabbit
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 25
posted November 26, 2005 07:55 AM  
i live in mich. the motor claim here destroyed the longtime realationship with imca.only one trak left of several still imca. i think alot had to do with promoters tired of complaints to imca . seemed like a pain in the but for them to deal with all the b.s. now we have big motor bills and diferent rules everywere you go.weve lost the luxury of racing with same rules everywere i seen alot of claiming , had to pull a few myself. cant think of any you could say were for lagit reasons.anyway just want to look at the pros and cons of this longtime delecate topic..thanks rog

[This message has been edited by roger rabbit (edited November 26, 2005).]

Fastride 38
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 136
posted November 26, 2005 11:59 AM  
Yes mavrik82, IMCA has gone to a $525 or swap rule for the modifieds and I-stocks for next year.


I copied this from IMCA's website for you to read mavrik82.


Engine exchange option added in 2006 for Modifieds, Stock Cars
VINTON, Iowa (Nov. 16) – An engine exchange option has been added for IMCA Modified and Stock Car drivers competing at weekly and special events next season.
The driver in each class accepting the claim will have the choice between cash, which remains unchanged at $525 for Modifieds and $425 for Stock Cars, or exchanging engines with the driver making the claim. The claiming driver will pay the $25 wrecker fee if the cash option is taken, or a $50 wrecker fee if the exchange option results.
“Since the introduction of the Modified in 1979, we have experimented with the engine exchange at special events, special series events and in our traveling series, and during that time drivers have continued to exercise their privilege to claim,” IMCA Vice President of Operations Brett Root said. ”The majority of our members don’t argue the effectiveness of the claim. They argue the fairness of it. There is a fine line between keeping the claim affordable and fair without jeopardizing its effectiveness.”
The number of claims a driver can make will be capped at four, with the exchange option available in each instance. Hobby Stock and SportMod drivers will be allowed one claim at the straight cash value and as many as three more exchange claims.
No change is being made in IMCA’s general claim procedures, including requirements that the driver making the claim have cash, their claim card and current license when they pull into the claim area.
Also unchanged is the provision allowing IMCA or the track promoter to claim any engine for cash. The one special event where the engine exchange will not be in place is the IMCA Speedway Motors Super Nationals, where the public auction will continue to follow the Saturday night race program.
Claim cards will be redesigned so track officials can record when the claim was for cash or the exchange.
“While the Modifieds and Stock Cars are still affordable weekly divisions, they have engine rules open to more aftermarket components, with less engine restrictions resulting in an engine that, in general, costs more money to build,” Root said. “We have more structure to engine rules for our Hobby Stocks and SportMods. Drivers in those classes can still be competitive with engines that cost less than $1,000.”
The number of engine claims in a season peaked at 544 in 1997. Of the 404 claims accepted this year, 149 were in the Modified division, 138 in the Hobby Stocks and 113 in the Stock Cars.
“We are not trying to eliminate engine claims. That’s the last thing we want to do. The purpose of claiming is to keep engine costs to a minimum,” Root said. “We want to keep all our divisions affordable and allow racers to come back to the track week in and week out. Even with the exchange option, racers will continue to claim. The frequency of claims is what concerns us. If you have no claims, you essentially have no claim rule.”

[This message has been edited by Fastride 38 (edited November 26, 2005).]

mavrik82
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 97
posted November 26, 2005 02:36 PM  
Thanx Fastride, I appreciate that! I think this rule is a long time coming. Too many claims have been because of an incident on the track or a personality conflict.If you think I've got a big motor, you should be willing to put yours up for swap. This should also end the claims for profit in most cases. I and I'm sure hundreds of people have asked Brett Root for this for years and in my case, just got an answer with an attitude along the line of "I do it the way I want". I am all for the claim, as I'm sure it keeps the price of motors lowere, but not $525!
Thanx again,
Brett

Sidebite252
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 107
posted November 26, 2005 04:17 PM  
The swap option suits us perfectly. I applaud IMCA for the change in the rules. This is what I've always thought would be the fairest way to have a claim rule. Actually with any claim rule there is no need to try and police roller cams, aluminum head, ect.... The claim/swap will take care of that. As much as I have slammed IMCA in the past I say "kodos" for this.

20crew
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 29
posted November 26, 2005 08:47 PM  
the claim is useless . it does not control costs. if you build a motor that can be claimed and not kill you , chances are its going to break before the seasons over.
what cost more build a decent motor that will live all year or one that has to be fixed a couple of times a year.
if they want to contol the motors, imca needs to go to a spec motor like the latemodels at least then you have some room to work with.
the two weekly tracks we ran last year went imca. so we wont race there for that reason this season.

Fastride 38
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 136
posted November 26, 2005 11:02 PM  
quote:
imca needs to go to a spec motor like the latemodels


No offense here 20crew. I'm not trying to sound like a smartbutt here. I'm just confused. I've seen alot of different posts from alot of different people and I honestly don't understand. If you want to run a spec motor like the latemodels, then why not just run a latemodel?

I like the claim idea. I like the no motor rules idea. I don't like the claim rule and motor rule together idea at all. I see it like this, I may be getting outrun because a guy may have more motor than me. Well, I have two options here. I can either build a bigger motor and risk being claimed myself or swap/claim him(per the new rules). At least I know he is not cheating because there would be no motor rules. The claim rule is just one of the many reasons I run IMCA.

[This message has been edited by Fastride 38 (edited November 26, 2005).]

Mod57
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 65
posted November 27, 2005 12:42 AM  
I couldn't have said it better Fastride 38. Give us our stud girdles back.

mavrik82
Dirt Forum Racer

Total posts: 97
posted November 27, 2005 07:07 AM  
Fastride, I couldn't agree with you more.The fact of the matter is that at every track there are a handful of front runners and then the also rans.IMCA's claim at $500 was just a way to control cost, never did they think any front runner would run a $500 motor.It comes down to what are you willing to lose.At many tracks mods are the premier division. Many of the also rans can't afford to be competitive, and probabably should do a reality check and consider a cheaper class.My issue for years has not been someone taking my motor because they think I have big bucks in it. My issue is the guy we tangled with on the last lap, or the guy we argued with in the pits getting pay back. What is even worse is when you travel to another track and they like to keep outsiders out. A friend ran out of town and ran 2nd and a local tried to claim him, and only a technicality saved his motor. After that many guys from my track didn't want to go there. He couldn't claim back because he hadn't raced there 2 weeks. That part of the rule was written to keep an out of towner from coming in, claiming a motor, and never coming back to face repercussions. Now at least if this happened, he could swap with the claimer, and then the claimer might think differently.There is no perfect system and I do believe IMCA does try to keep cost down, but sometimes their attitude gets in the way of intelligent ideas.I think the whole girdle thing was a way to try to keep the motors lower reving but easy to tech. I does **** to take away anything that makes a motor stay together.whether I agree with it or not,the roller cam rule I'm sure did keep cost down,because if you build a roller motor, I will too.Hopefully this swap rule will keep IMCA from feeling they need to implement more rules.
I think spec motor racing is the way of the future,and I think it is the greatest idea since sliced bread, in all the lower class's.I as much enjoy building a fast car as driving one!There needs to be class's were it is no holes barred.IMCA mod racing is a place where I can still do this on a local level without having a $100,000 budget.I am in the land of DIRT BigBlock Mods, and I assure you IMCA, no matter how big a motor you build, is a cheap way to go fast.
OK, enough ramblin', great subject fastride, and thanx!
Brett

DIRTRUNR
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 44
posted November 27, 2005 09:50 AM  
I THINK IT IS A GOOD RULE. EVEN IF YOU LOSE YOUR ENGINE YOU STILL GET ONE BACK SO AT LEAST YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RACE THE NEXT WEEK.

20crew
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 29
posted November 27, 2005 06:32 PM  
I didn't say i wanted to run a spec motor
alough we may switch to a latemodel some time soon[up to car owner]. i'm just saying that the claim dosen't control the motors or the cost for most racers . I JUST DON'T
LIKE A CLAIM RULE PERIOD. if they [imca] want a motor rule they should go to a spec motor just heads[steel darts no porting?] and intake ,leave the rest up to the racer and their budget.
Our car owner runs an engine shop he has
looked into the latemodel spec motor thing and says the biggest draw back is the reaserch and dyno time needed to make decent power. besides you don't need a lot of power in a mod[little hard tire]. I aplaud imca for trying to control costs i just don't agree with the way they are trying to do it.

Fastride 38
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 136
posted November 28, 2005 06:27 AM  
20crew, I wasn't trying to single you out. I have read many posts refering to the same thing. I don't understand how people can build/buy a modified fully aware of the claim rules then complain about them. It just doesn't make sense.

I was just hoping with IMCA's new claim/swap rule they would drop their motor rules cause frankly, that doesn't make sense to me either.


I agree with you on not needing major horsepower to be fast in a modified. You still have to put all that power to the ground for it to be any help at all.

[This message has been edited by Fastride 38 (edited November 28, 2005).]

socaldirtmod
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 20
posted November 28, 2005 04:54 PM  
Welllll,
There are many pros/cons to the IMCA claim, since i am one of the afore mentioned racers to venture away from their local area tracks, win and get claimed, (because i was percieved as an out of town hotshot with a big motor or hurt someones feelings on the way not sure?) +_*()*&%$#@ , i applaud the rule change and personally patitioned Brett to do this 2 years ago at PRI show, i felt that it wasnt in the spirit of the IMCA's self proclaimed 'Grassroots' affordable racing theme to NOT allow a swap and thus both competitors to race another day with limited hardship and allow the claimer to gain the PERCEIVED 'edge' he wanted to be competitive. lots of different opinions for and against probably all with there merits... but like they always said.... the old claim rule is Great rule.... unless your the one getting claimed!!

just my 2cents.

20crew
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 29
posted November 28, 2005 08:01 PM  
fastride , I didn't think you were trying to single me out.we are just two racers voiceing our opinion. the tracks we ran weekly for the past four years only had a head and intake claim . but they are now going to imca for 2006.
the main problem I can see with a swap claim [witch may help stop some grudge spur of the moment claims ]is someone will put in a junk motor and hope they can stay on the lead lap just so they can claim the poor soul that #@$$$^$ them off two weeks ago. I think a spec motor of some kind would be better [yes it may cost some more to start with ] .Because the racer could build a motor they know will last and they know will go home with them at the end of the night [although it may be in peices
cause some one wanted to see in it].

midmod34
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 121
posted November 29, 2005 11:12 AM  
wissota spec motor 14-16000 nessd we say more

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