Visit The Dirt Forum for More Information

Author Topic:   Ford Engine Swap... Issues!
socaldirtmod
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 19
posted August 29, 2005 05:04 PM  
Changing to Ford power, loose a little weight and tired of worring about getting claimed!
1)Anyone running a KSE tandum pump with SBF? What water pump/pulleys and drive mandrel do you use? bought the pump and "ford" kit... and it is less that complete so got the water pump drive, with the w/pump that came on the engine the w/p drive kit puts the fan into the front bumper?? well not quite but into the radiator for sure!
2)Bought a Quartermaster Ford,Chevy steel bellhousing because in knew i would eventually go to Ford power, been running a SBC with a Bert. The engine came with a 164t flywheel which was WAY to big and wouldn't let the bellhousing bolt up, changed to a 157 tooth, it is close but still contacts the bellhousing when fully bolted up... seems to be a slight offest issue, tried several different brands to no avail? Any help Ford powered guys? thx

T/10
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 71
posted August 29, 2005 06:37 PM  
The 157 tooth is what you will have to use,the one I ran did hit a little when I would race the engine but it was very little, not enough that I took it back apart, after the first hot laps I never noticed it anymore and did not see anything wrong with the flywheel when I took it apart later.Your's might be more than, if so, you might have to use a die grinder on the bell housing. I did not like the belt drive behind the fan. I would not buy another one. I would get the drive that goes on the crank, the one on the water pump gets the fan to close to the radiator, but it will work, I got mine to work. I used .5" spacer to clear the bottom pully. I got all my pullies from Towers & Harwood, they are going out of business. I don't know if you can still order from them or not but try to talk to Rick, he is very knowledgable on what pullies you will need. One more thing has your front crossmember been cut out for the Ford to make room for the radiator? If not you will have to cut out about 3" on the back side of the crossmember for the radiator to clear the fan. Fords take some work but are worth every bit of it. Hope this helps. I will help all I can I have never raced anything but Ford so I have seen about everything.

eenfield
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 116
posted August 29, 2005 07:43 PM  
If you are in need of some custom type pulleys, try either CV Products or Jones Racing. Both companies make some good stuff. I dont know about CV, but Jones can/will build to suit.

gould
Dirt Forum Champ
Total posts: 730
posted August 29, 2005 08:10 PM  
Why don't you build them eenfield, I here you are quite the fabricator.

oldfordmod
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 46
posted August 29, 2005 09:48 PM  
I have the Tilton Ford/chevy bell housing and had the same problem. I chanfered the back side of the 157 tooth starter ring just enough to keep it from contacting. No problems at all.

hjoe
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 132
posted August 29, 2005 10:48 PM  
i had this same problem and no help so i looked to a place called blp products in florida got a mendral from them and cut it down at local machine shop for my clearences i run a skyrocket with a 408 windsor i run afco motor mounts less hassle then the 1s from towers and harwood i took the lower pulley that you can get from towers and had a machine shop cut off the front belt groove and replace with aluminum so i could put it onto my mandrel headers i bought from our parts business we are dealers for if any other questions drop me a line... Hope this helps

eenfield
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 116
posted August 30, 2005 06:27 AM  
Hey Ted, have you totaled your mod yet? Its getting about that time.

JohnG
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 137
posted August 30, 2005 07:20 PM  
I allways figured if you claimed a ford, the guy would be begging you to sell it back to him for a good amount since he cant just buy a ford in the claim area the next week, or even out of the classifieds???

4d_POWER
Dirt Maniac

Total posts: 136
posted August 30, 2005 08:39 PM  
http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/

Very knowledgeable and helpful.

Also try http://www.krcpower.com/

[This message has been edited by 4d_POWER (edited August 30, 2005).]

socaldirtmod
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 19
posted August 31, 2005 12:31 AM  
Thanks for the help guys, here is the current low down...
Towers & Harwood, out of buisness, they did answer the phone, Rick said in a nut shell i'm out of luck? that the quartermaster B/H requires their flexplate which is zero balance (virtually all sb Fords are ext balance including mine) and that any others will not clear! I radiused the back edge of mine to about 2/3rds of original width and it still touches? should have gotten a tilton i guess, thinking of running a additional motor plate cut down to use as a bellhousing shim?? what do you think?

Got a hold of Jones, and they can handle the KSE spacing problem, i also ordered a Ford Racing water pump the moves the fan flange 1.5" inches back toward the motor. I will see if Jones has a pulley kit to match. trying to do anything i can to keep from choping the crosmember of my new car!! keep the ideas coming thx.

tg
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 16
posted August 31, 2005 01:10 PM  
Make sure you know what water pump you have and talk with Jones to get the correct pullies. I ran into trouble with this and they had to send me parts overnight 3 times before they got it right. I used the radius tooth setup for the KSE and the serpantine pullies for everything else. I found that there are three different ford water pumps, which should be the same but they aren't. Mr. Jones helped sort everything out but when i spoke with the sales people on the phone originally, they never mensioned anything. Just ask lots of questions. Otherwise i love the parts and they work great.

oluf
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 30
posted August 31, 2005 05:58 PM  
I just set up a kse tandem on a ford. I used all jones radius tooth parts. I also had rad. clearance issues. I mounted the kse low & to the right, with a custom bracket simular to the one jones sells, except I used the two bolt holes where the timing pointer goes instead of the waterpump holes, this let me move the pump back far enough to drive it behind the waterpump belt. this was the shortest combo I could come up with.

T/10
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 71
posted August 31, 2005 06:31 PM  
If you space the bell housing back you will need to check the input shaft of the transmission you will have less splines in the drive flange. I had to use a .25" spacer to make up for the mid plate. Also your drive shaft will change to.

socaldirtmod
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 19
posted August 31, 2005 07:19 PM  
Back to the drawing board, Ford Racing as usual is on B/O on M-8501-E351S 1.5" shorter 4.250" depth water pump i was wanting to use? anyone using this? know where to get one??

quote:
Originally posted by tg:
Make sure you know what water pump you have and talk with Jones to get the correct pullies. I ran into trouble with this and they had to send me parts overnight 3 times before they got it right. I used the radius tooth setup for the KSE and the serpantine pullies for everything else. I found that there are three different ford water pumps, which should be the same but they aren't. Mr. Jones helped sort everything out but when i spoke with the sales people on the phone originally, they never mensioned anything. Just ask lots of questions. Otherwise i love the parts and they work great.

tg What part# pulleys worked for you? What w/pump did you use , do you know the depth " ? do you like the serpentine set up?

quote:
Originally posted by oluf:
I just set up a kse tandem on a ford. I used all jones radius tooth parts. I also had rad. clearance issues. I mounted the kse low & to the right, with a custom bracket simular to the one jones sells, except I used the two bolt holes where the timing pointer goes instead of the waterpump holes, this let me move the pump back far enough to drive it behind the waterpump belt. this was the shortest combo I could come up with.

oluf This sounds like a good idea i was thinking of modifing the bracket to use down there good to hear it can work, what w/pump did you use do you know the depth " ? i assume you use v-belts?

quote:
Originally posted by T/10:
If you space the bell housing back you will need to check the input shaft of the transmission you will have less splines in the drive flange. I had to use a .25" spacer to make up for the mid plate. Also your drive shaft will change to.

t/10 Good thought, i do have 2 different dept drive flanges, one is an adapter to mate a Chevy flange on a Ford crank and an aluminum spacer (now i know why!)

oluf
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 30
posted September 01, 2005 08:48 AM  
I'm not useing v- belts. All htd radius tooth belts. Do you have a measurement from some reference point on your engine, to your radiator? If you do I could compare it to mine to see if my combo would work for you. My water pump is 5.75 long. Also, I have all my part #s, and could send some pics.

tg
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 16
posted September 01, 2005 11:17 AM  
I will have to look up the part numbers tonight. I do like the serpantine setup no problems so far, going on 2 years. My only complaint is that the fine sand from Victorville does get into the grooves on the belts and it is slowly eating up the pullies. I clean them every race but otherwise it is great. I use the ford racing pump and just machined off the water pump bosses that were located on the passenger side of the car. This allowed me to mount the KSE back closer to the motor and i just used the bracket supplied by jones. I had to find all my own hardware to mount it because what they supplied was way off.

tg
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 16
posted September 01, 2005 11:24 AM  
I just realized that i was not clear in my first post. You will have to verify the crank to waterpump distance because i found that is varies by about an 1/8" each way depending on what waterpump you are using. It doesnt make any sense but thats what i found and had to work out with Jones. I was trying to use there recommended setup of the serpantine belt between the crank and waterpump only and a Radius tooth belt to drive the KSE. I hope this helps.

tg
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 16
posted September 01, 2005 11:25 AM  
I just realized that i was not clear in my first post. You will have to verify the crank to waterpump distance because i found that is varies by about an 1/8" each way depending on what waterpump you are using. It doesnt make any sense but thats what i found and had to work out with Jones. I was trying to use there recommended setup of the serpantine belt between the crank and waterpump only and a Radius tooth belt to drive the KSE. I hope this helps.

socaldirtmod
Dirt Roller

Total posts: 19
posted September 01, 2005 02:58 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by oluf:
I'm not useing v- belts. All htd radius tooth belts. Do you have a measurement from some reference point on your engine, to your radiator? If you do I could compare it to mine to see if my combo would work for you. My water pump is 5.75 long. Also, I have all my part #s, and could send some pics.

Wow, i asked jones if i could run all htd pulleys for the KSE combo pump, crank and water pump and they said the htd belt couldn't or was not well suited to handle the accel/decel inertia of the water pump mounted fan? Thats what you have? any problems? can you send me pics to hawksracing@linkline.com

Travis PM me your phone number i lost it somewhere? dh


98modified
Dirt Newbie

Total posts: 1
posted September 01, 2005 10:58 PM  
see the screwdriver in the corner. use it on what ever you got loose! just kidding. wear the bow tie. see you at the tech pad!

oluf
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 30
posted September 02, 2005 07:58 AM  
Yes, I run all HTD belts, 1 for the w/pump&1 for the KSE. Jones does'nt want you to run the water pump and the KSE off the same belt because the pulley contact with the belt is over a much smaller radius.
I'll try to send some pics.

oluf
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 30
posted September 02, 2005 11:04 AM  



 
some Kse pics. Hope this works!

tcmod
Dirt Full Roller

Total posts: 56
posted September 11, 2005 04:47 PM  
I run a Windsor with a bert behind it, I use the bert bell housing with reverse mount starter and mount the KSE to the bellhousing and spin with HTD belt off back of crank, cleanest mounting possible if rules allow you to run it. So I have a single v-belt up front, very small moroso crank pulley and an aluminum water pump pulley. And the Windsor is externally balanced.

Back to the Archives